Current LEUP Info?

Hello fellow terroris.. uh rocketeers,
Can someone point me in the direction of the most recent instructions for obtaining a LEUP? Hopefully a set of instructions that have
actually managed to keep up with the ATFE's asinine changes.
Also...
1. Is it true that you now must have a storage magazine to get a LEUP? If so, what type(s) of mags are acceptable? Especially, what do you have to do to legally transport your magazine to a launch? (I read somewhere that they we're going to require the mag be bolted to your vehicle or some such nonsense.)
2. Do most LEUP holders make their own magazine, or do they buy them? If you buy them, where can I purchase an approved mobile magazine?
3. How long can I expect this BATFE BS to take?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Regards, Mick Newton
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snipped-for-privacy@direcway.com (Michael Newton) wrote:

You do ont put rocket motors or propellants in magazines.

It's done now.
27 CFR 555.141-a-8

I just gave you the best help ever imagined: an exemption.
Just Jerry

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Now if only the ATF would recognize it...
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:

They do. Look at enforcement actions as a guide.
Jerry
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote in message

I'm more concerned with what the dealers will recognize.
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snipped-for-privacy@direcway.com (Michael Newton) wrote:

P O I N T ! !
Just Jerry
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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Where? Cite it.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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<< 1. Is it true that you now must have a storage magazine to get a LEUP?>>
Yes, OR you can use someone else's storage, if that is available to you.
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Mick,
I see you've got a lot of useful information so far in response to your post. Here are some links that should be useful: ATF Regs and specs http://www.atf.gov/explarson/fedexplolaw/index.htm Note that current regs call for padlocks with 3/8" diameter shackles. There's a notice of proposed rulemaking that will change that to 1/2" if adopted. (Good luck finding locks with 1/2" dia. shackles.....there's not many out there).
Based on a suggestion from a fellow club member, I'm going to convert a metal tool box into a type 4 magazine. Here's the box from Sears that i'm plannng on using http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid 959216000
Also, the NAR website has a "how to" article in the cabinet section regarding filling out the application.
Hope that helps some.
--
Bill Wehner
TRA #08913 L2
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Bill Wehner wrote:

Looking around hardware stores a while back, it appeared that 7/16" was the largest commonly available size. (I suspect that's why they proposed 1/2" - it's sort of like passing a law that requires an insurance policy of a type that no company actually issues, or something...)
-dave w
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Your best bet is a mortise lock, which doesn't even have the tumbler requirement.
Joel. phx

not
the
1/2" -

type
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Bill,
Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.
So, as near as I can figure out from the numerous .pdf files on the site you sent me the following would be the minimum required to obtain a low-explosives user permit (please keep in mind that I am not a lawyer. <g>)
(1) A type 4 magazine, which must be stored in a non-inhabited weatherproof building, situated at least 75 feet from any inhabited building, 75 feet from any highway, and 50 from any other magazine. (2) Approval from the local fire marshal. (3) A correctly filled out license application with photo and fingerprint card. (4) $100.00 grease money for the Gestap BATFE.
Does that sound about right?
Did you know that according to item #18 in the "Questions and Answers" section in "18 U.S.C. Chapter 40 and 27 CFR Part 55", it's legal to purchase and use dynamite on your own property without any permit or license? But, I'm required to have to have a $100.00 BATFE permit in order to possess an H impulse motor, which used to be considered a toy! I've used dynamite before, and I can assure you that it's quite a bit more powerful than any HPR motor I've ever seen.
"You want to blow stuff up with dynamite? No problemo. Knock yourself out."
"You want to fly a model rocket? What, are you some kind of psycho? You must be one of those terrorists I've been hearing about."
Also, it's perfectly legal to possess up to 50 pounds of commercially manufactured black powder if you use it to shoot something with a muzzle-loading rifle. But to use .8 grams of the same material for an ejection charge in a rocket you need a permit!
Unf'ing believable.
Regards, Michael Newton
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Didn't quite get that right. An outdoor magazine must be 75,75,50,.... an indoor magazine must be stored in a uninhabited building. It doesn't say where that uninhabited building must be located, OR define what a building <is>.

Question 18 - 18. Are binary explosives subject to regulation under Federal explosives laws? Doesn't indicate that it's legal to purchase and use dynamite. However, the Q&A are prior to May 24 and for whatever reason do not reflect the passing of the HSA.
Question 38 - 38. I want to buy a small quantity of dynamite from my local dealer to use on my property. Do I need a Federal user's permit? No, provided the dynamite is purchased in your State of residence and not transported across State lines. A user's permit is required when a nonlicensee acquires or transports explosive.....
No longer applies because of HSA you <now> need an LEUP to purchase explosives from your state.
Joel. phx
Also, you must know your local rules because some places (like Phoenix) might have greater restrictions.

Correct.
No, politics.

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A pumphouse is a building, whether or not it has a pump in it at the time.

Yes.
NO! Read further. 27 CFR 555.141-a-8 exempts ALL PADS from Federal lisencing requirements.
ALL.
Do NOT put rocket motors or propellants in a magazine. It is actually illegal !

Propellants are EXEMPT from the explosives regulations.

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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local
Dynamite is not used as a propellant (IAFAIK) anywhere. It IS an explosive and you are required to have an LEUP to purchase non-exempt [low] explosives, even instate.
Joel. phx

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[snip]

Jerry,
Yes, I saw that section. But, does the BATFE classify AP motors as a PAD? I kind of doubt it. The BATFE now classify AP as a low explosive. But then they also state that visco safety fuse is an explosive requiring a permit, and later in the same document state that it's exempt if used with your 50 lbs. of muzzle-loader fuel.
I think I'll make up a motor with 50 lbs. of black powder, then I'll sharpen the nose of my rocket and go deer hunting.

Huh?
Regards, Michael Newton
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snipped-for-privacy@direcway.com (Michael Newton) wrote:

The DESCRIPTION of a PAD in its DEFINITION describes motors and reloads to perfection.
See:
27 CFR 55.11, "Propellant Actuated Device. Any tool or special mechanized device or gas generator system which is actuated by a propellant or which releases and directs work through a propellant charge."
This definition is what is referred to in 27 CFR 55.141(a)(8)
55.141 exemptions (a) (8) Gasoline, fertilizers, propellant actuated devices, or propellant actuated industrial tools manufactured, imported, or distributed for their intended purposes.
From this, it is commonly understood that as long as the PAD are manufactured, imported, or distributed for their intended purpose, they are exempt from treatment as explosives per 27 CFR and other laws. There is no size or volume limitation on what is exempted.
See http://www.atf.treas.gov/explarson/fedexplolaw/qanda.pdf
page 10 (page 62 of the "Orange Book")
66. Who must meet storage requirements? All persons who store explosive materials must store them in conformity with the provisions of Subpart K of the regulations, unless the person or the materials are exempt from regulation. [18 U.S.C. 842(j), 845; 27 CFR 55.29, 55.141, 55.164, 55.201(a)]
Note the reference to 55.141.

So whether or not the components are explosives, they are exempt under this special provision for propellant.
"Because it is not designed to function by explosion" no doubt.

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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I was re-reading the BATFE's arguments and its very noticable in their argument that APCP is an explosive that they do not argue that its "common or primary purpose is to function as an explosive" but instead they argue that APCP "functions as an explosive"...... A fine point perhaps, but still important..... I wonder if the court will notice this selective argument?
shockie B)

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