Hi I'm new to this hobby as I mentioned in my previous post (new to group) Thanx for all the replies:) I've been looking at a suitable kit for certification and there is a local guy who sells the good stuff:) LOC PML ....... He has a kit from PML for a reasonable price US$60.00 it's the X-Calibur and seems to have all the right stuff this is the kit he recommend me to get. Would this be suitable for a level2 cert as well? The kit can be flown on anything from F-I motors and is a high altitude kit. There is a local guy here in Vancouver who sells hybrid motors $130.00 for the 38mm kit. Is there a big cost involved in using the pro-38 engines? In order to use the Hybrid motor i would have to get a different rocket. I would like to keep is as simple as possible as HP models are new to me. Has anyone got any experience with the PML kits? Let me know which direction to take? There sems to be a wealth of knowledge here on the board:) Mike
There used to be a list of rockets people had used for L1 and L2, anyone know who used to post it? Time for a repost?
If it can only be flown on F-I motors, then you won't be able to use it for L2. Unless you can modify it in some way. L2 requires either a J, K or L motor.
I would have said the cost of ownership of pro38 is amongst the lowest. You need to have a specific casing for each of the motors of a particular number of grains, but that's it. No special GSE.
Lots of people have. Personally I like them, though I did prefer the older phenolic body tubes to the newer quantum tubes. Some people don't like the pistons. I've never had a problem.
There, is. But it's not a "board" it's a news group. Sorry, a pet peeve.
Level 2 is a J so make sure it can fit about a 14 inch motor. PML is good especially if you like dual deploy already ready to rock ($100 device). LOC is by far cheaper and easier and since you might crash you might consider that for your 1st and 2nd HPR. Bigger is better because it is harder to loose.
Mike, I'm not going to recommend a specific rocket. I L1 certed on a Binder Design Excel Plus because I liked the unusual fins. I wasn't going to go further than that because I was pretty happy in the G-H range, then Wayne offered free Hypertek grains for certification attempts at NSL. I scratch built a rocket similar to the BSD Apache as I no longer saw the point of buying kits. From that point of view, let me offer:
See level 1, level 2 articles on:
formatting link
formatting link
Because this topic comes up every once in a while, search for '+which rocket' on deja:
formatting link
the "+" which forces the search to include 'which'
I have built the Tiny Pterodactyl PML kit which though I like, would not recommend for a cert because it would disappear!
Those are all good questions I struggled with when I first got started.
Here's what I came up with.
I decided to build my own 4" dual deploy capable rocket for my certification attempts and subsequent 'for fun' flights. The rocket can be flown on an H through a J. Although likely some mods, carbon fibre along the fin root, would have to be done for the J flight as mach transition could be a factor.
I also decided to build a rocket that I can fly at all my club launches, up to G impulse. Dual deploy capable, so I can learn how to use electronics for recovery. I wanted to have as many iterations as possible before my cert attempts so I could be confident when the cert attempt was tried. Likely the level two although electronic deploy is not a requirement until level four. This rocket had to be less than 1500 grams as per Canadian regulation's. I found US Rockets Warp 1.5 to be a likely candidate and ordered it. There are a bunch out there that would fit the bill. The hard part I found was getting all the specs from the manufacturers website, most list the dimensions but not weight.
A lot of the techniques for building HPR rockets are the same, but there are some that are not the same or are not necessary for mid power and model rockets. The use of fibreglass, through the wall fin mounts, and shock cords attached to the upper motor mount coming to mind right now. I didn't want to learn these the hard way, build an expensive rocket and possibly watch it fail. So, I got a whole pile of parts for model rockets and started designing model rockets using fibreglass, through the wall fin mounts and shock cords attached to the upper motor mount. When I started on my 4" I felt a whole lot better about it's construction as a result.
There are a number of sites out there that provide good construction techniques for a myriad of rocket components, not the least of which are club sites. Here are some of the ones I've used :
formatting link
Also talk to the folks in your club, they've been there and done that. Anyone I've ever asked a question of has been more than helpful. That's one of the things that make rocketry great, everyone wants everyone to succeed.
If the manufacturer says it can be flown on F-I motors then, yes, in Canada it would be good for level two cert, H - Level 1, I - Level 2, J,K,L - Level 3, M, N, O - Level 4.
The cost for the Pro 38 1 and 2 grain casings is around $40 - $50. The motors are in a similar price range, G's and H's anyway. Find a dealer, they should be able to get you some pricing.
There is no requirement to use Hybrids, that would be a personal choice.
Yes especially for cert flights, low, slow and simple.
What precedes is what I came up with for myself, the ultimate decision lies with you. What you think would be cool to build and fly and fit the cert parameters :-)
Have fun with it,
Ken Baldwin CAR S825 replace nospam with telus to reply
this is what I have bought, keeping in mind that I don't have alot of space to make or store big rockets.
I wanted to have a few kits at each level to experience the different materials, assess the vendors and play with different construction techniques (some I'll 'glass). I also wanted to have the option of using hybrids.
I had done considerable research (rocketreviews, etc) before deciding on these particular birds.
Manufact Model Motors Mount Wght Dia Len oz in in LEVEL 1 RocketMan Lil' Kahuna G H I 38 21 2.15 46 PML Callisto G H I 38 25 2.1 46 Public Enemy Patriot H I 38 25 4 52 Yank Iris G H I 38 40 3 60
LEVEL 2 LOC EZI-65 G H I J 54 38 35 4 56.5 Binder Designs Excel Plus 54 G H I J 54 ? 4 67 BSD Horizon 54 H I J 54 56 4 67 PML Tethys H I J K 54 38 53 3.9 53
I would NOT recommend an EZI for L2 as nearly all J motors have a high thrust and it will shred. The only J motors I would use in a stock EZI are J90 and J180. It does make an excellant L1 rocket though.
Mike I'd recommend a LOC Warloc for both Level 1 & 2. Short, fat rocket with lots of space inside. Apogee deployment keeps it simple. A big "I" takes it to around
1000ft and a J350 takes it to around 1500ft. Simple to build and a real crowd pleaser when it flys. The only change I'd make would be to put a 54mm mount in it, rather than the stock 38mm. You'll want to put bigger motors in it, later:-)! I did both my Level 1 and 2 Certs on one and currently have 27 flights on it (all but one on J's). Great flyer and really durable:-). Good luck whatever you choose!
Excellent point, thinking back as I stared at 18' of 10" body tube.
Another excellent point. I had purchased a bunch of Aerotech kits before I found buyrockets.com and the whole rocket scene. I built the G-force with the techniques I used to build Binder's Excel. That way, if something didn't work quite right, it wasn't the cert machine. And of course they were both different materials (plastic versus paper/wood).
can the structural weaknesses be addressed by 'glassing and replacement or augmentation of the centering rings and/or fins?
part of the exercise as I stated is to gain experience with various construction techniques.
but I can see that for the actual L2 it would be more prudent to applu the KISS principal and go with a rocket that can satisfy the structural requirements out of the box. ;)
PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.