A real concern about Rule #4. Hate to be limited to
"only...NAR-certified" motors. I would like to also use TRA and
I know that some are going to argue that there is some reciprocal
agreement (couln't find it posted anywhere). However, if you read the
Model Rocket Safety Code, it allows generic "certified" motors.
Therefore, there must be something important about the "NAR-certified"
limitation. Finally, they proceed this "NAR-certified" limitation
with the word "only" which directs exclusivity (i.e., not allowing
others, nothing else or more).
Therefore, the reason for my use of the word "exactly" in my question.
I believe the NAR considers anything on its "combined" list to be
"NAR-certified" for safety purposes, even if it is simply listing
a motor which was actually tested by CAR or TRA. I doubt that NAR
intends to ban motors that were tested by the other organizations.
(Ask your friendly neighborhood RSO for a binding interpretation.)
Are there any TRA-certified or CAR-certified motors
that NAR is _not_ including on the "combined" list?
The NAR doesn't necessarily have every document posted and ready for your
inspection on the website. I'm sure there is documentation supporting
reciprocal motor cert agreements with CAR and TMT. Just because you can't
find supporting documentation does not mean that it does not exist in one
form or another.
If you don't agree with what the organization is about, then don't join or
renew. Sheesh. That way you don't have to whine about Dr. Rocket cases or
motor certs anymore. Get your own waivers, and fly Jerry's or your own
motors to your heart's content. You don't *need* any of the national orgs,
you can be a lone ranger.
NAR 82797 L1
Don't ya just hate "Pink Book Lawyers"? Especially when they are RIGHT?
"Cheer up, they said, things could be worse.
So we cheered up and they were right - it got worse."
"Yes, and I want to personally thank you for your tech contributions in
forums. Good stuff."
- Mike Fisher
I never claimed that it didn't exist. Just that I couldn't find it.
Therefore, I couldn't verify the wording or the authority of those
that made the agreement.
I see. All I did was ask a couple of questions about wording. I had
concerns (enough that I felt the need to start questioning the
integrity of the NAR after reading so much mudslinging about motor
certs, decertifications [who can and can't fly Kosdon motors?], what
parts substitutions are allowed/disallowed). The use of words is very
important, especially when it comes to writing rules and regulations.
The appearance is that the national organization doesn't seem to be
following their own rules and when questioned about it, you tell me to
quit whining. And you must be giving me what represents the typical
treatment of prospective new members.
"Our rules might suck, but leave them alone because they are our rules
and we have always done it that way. Go get your own" -- paraphrase
of J. A. Michel
I've seen pretty much every single code violated by the local NAR
section, J motors off the G line, home brew motors launched (or should
I say CATOed), but only after the range had been "officially closed"
for a good 10 seconds, RSOs openly drinking etc etc.......That said, I
don't consider any of these violations to be dangerous, modern motors
don't produce shrapnel, the closer to the pad the safer and I enjoy
watching buffoons spend lots of money crashing rockets, most of which
are real nice guys BTW. I'd still take my kids to one of their
Now, so much as MENTION a sugar motor and you're a god-less barbarian
who launches illegally, burns down the range, leaves beer cans all
over and rapes the local livestock.
The real irony is our EX launches are conducted far more safely, our
homemade motors, each lovingly and precisely made, are far more
reliable than any mass- produced inferior-designed screw-together
certified crap and we haul out our own damn trash!
It's all in the mind-set of the participants, any yahoo can glue
together a kit, slap in a BOUGHT motor and fly it. If it CATOs or
lawndarts into the spectator area, who cares, it's certified! the RSO
passed it! we're insured! "Think I'll have another beer and stuff a J
in it this time...." A lot of these guys are basically shooting legal
fireworks and act accordingly, and there's nothing wrong with that,
it's still safe and a lot of fun.
We spend untold hours researching, designing and constructing our
motors, every batch of propellant is precisely prepared, cast and
tested, every piece of hardware is machined to tolerances that make AT
motors look like Mexican bottle rockets and you should see our
airframes! We know what's gonna happen when WE PTFB.
Nowadays, and I get a tremendous kick out of this, is bragging about
having a LEUP......Christ-on-a-crutch.....In my opinion such
fear-driven obedience is treasonous to our founding principles. I take
great personal pride in my civil disobedience and have taught my
children likewise. When I joined the Army, 5 years Airborne Infantry
kiss my ass you REMMFS, I took an oath to defend my country from all
enemies foreign and domestic, I will proudly honor that oath til I
draw my last breathe....freaking LEUPs for toy rocket motors, grow
some BALLS guys.
Of course the last laugh is always ours, we're paying about 6 cents on
their dollar for our propellant and no LEUP required.....
Sorry for the rant, I'm just sick of the hypocrisy.
These opinions are mine and mine alone, disagree? No chili for you.
Executive Chef - TrailerTrashAerospace