No blacks in the JPL mission control?

Yes, the Mars-class impactor that formed the moon could certainly cause a re-boot of the system. Any collision that melts the crust to the depth at which the temperature was previously over about 200 C would probably have a good shot at taking out everything - but it only takes a few cells to survive. These few could hibernate in relatively unaffected rock blasted into orbit, re-entering years later after the crust had re-formed. We know this could happen because we have unmelted pieces of Mars in our hands right now.

Sure Europa will be difficult to explore - things that are worthwhile aren't necessarily easy at all. But NASA doesn't really need a crash program, they just need a consistent direction and budget to work with. Lets say the directive is "go find out if there is life in the solar system and the galaxy." This directive sets the facilities, research, manpower, launch vehicles, etc. that will be required to accomplish this in a reasonable period of time (i.e. something like 50 years, which is still fast compared to the european exploration of the western hemisphere or the building of a cathedral). If the directive is "colonize Mars" you will need a different mix of the above. The worst thing to do is to yank the NASA budget around and change priorities every four years. How much will it cost? I don't know. How long will it take? I don't know. Are these things worthwhile? Yes, I believe so because all of humanity benefits. The best way to accomplish either goal is to be persistent. Brownian motion doesn't result in any net convection - you'll just find yourself going around in circles with expensive hardware and infrastructure that eats your budget through overhead costs and doesn't accomplish what you need to do.

Pessimist: The glass is half empty. Optimist: The glass is half full. Engineer: The glass is too big.

Brad Hitch Engineer

Reply to
Brad Hitch
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No need to dig in. There seem to be "lava" flows across the surface of Europa. Now, when you consider on Europa, molten lava is what we call "water," you have to wonder if that brown stuff is Europan life "pining for the fjords.

Nah, my friend's talking about single-celled stuff that lives at an altitude where the heat and pressure won't destroy any "reasonably unreasonable" organism.

L. Ron Hubbard said that there were trains on Venus, and he almost got run over by one. I don't think he mentioned lizard people. The Jupitanians are supposed to look like eskimos. I forget whether Mars has the 4th or 5th invader fleet.

Does they guy who posts on sci.space.* do pinks and grays? It might explain a lot.

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

Says you. I want to still be alive and not drooling in a Jerry Chair (no relation) when we find life, dammit!

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

I have no idea what the hell a "Jerry-chair" is but find it funny as hell there is one.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

I've always wondered about that. How can they be so sure that these rocks are from Mars, especially when they don't even have any proven Mars rocks with which they can be compared?

Reply to
RayDunakin

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m16.aol.com:

They're stamped "Imported from Mars"?

len.

Reply to
Leonard Fehskens

They beep when Mars light hits them (just like moon rocks beep when moon light hits them).

By the way, was the Geoff Landis with the cool 3-D specs on the news last night?

-Fred Shecter NAR 20117

Reply to
Fred Shecter

I was told our planet was in danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star goat!

Yes, we were on the "B" Ark - along with the telephone sanitizers, account executives and frozen hairdressers!

the answer to life, the universe and everything is------42!

Dale Greene

Reply to
Dale Greene

Geriatric chair. Hope you never wind up in one, or if they do, they at least give you a decent computer interface and T1 line.

Jerry chairs (I don't know why we spell them with a J rather than a G, may be a particular manufacturer, the Jerry is obviously short for Geriatric) make me think of the mixture of smells - urine, vanilla Ensure, Depends (plasticizer?), and "old-people" smell that's present in the worst nursing homes.

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

The brief answer is "Isotope ratios."

There's a more complex answer, but how about I just give you the URL?

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It's good reading on ALH84001 anyway.

There's other references on the web as well.

I own a very small piece of a martian meteorite and a very small piece of a lunar meteorite.

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

Now that you have posted it on rmr, it is going to happen! Run away!

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Lottos are a voluntary tax.......sort of economic darwinism, those who can afford it the least drop their paycheck on it. :-)

Reply to
Chuck Rudy

zoot wrote:

Nay, nay! From the Guth Venus Website:

"As a result, I honestly believe there still is, or at least was significant other life on Venus as of 13+ years ago. As my most recent Venus discoveries upon those community like infrastructures tend to boldly suggest, the likelihood of there being survivors seems another real possibility, and that's still going by way of those pesky laws of physics, which seem to be upholding a whole lot more on behalf of my argument side than not, of there being this responsible "other life NOT as we know it" equation. Perhaps this is not really a fair argument unless you're blind and/or dumb as a post, as for connecting those dots/pixels is highly interpretive, just like the geologist utilized those very same pixels to analyze the terrain, in order to establish the size and shapes of rock and landscape, as those were equally their human interpretations of what's what, even though the geologist didn't have a clue as to how those pixels were gathered in the first place, none the less we believed their version was the truth to the best of their abilities. Geology and even meteorology wise, I so happen to fully concur that the Venus terrain and environment is in fact humanly hot and nasty, though somewhat less hot and less nasty within their extended season of nighttime, especially if you're sufficiently elevated and having access to great amounts of energy is certainly another win-win for those Venus lizard folks. "

Pure genius.

Brett

Reply to
Brett Buck

Lotteries are a tax on the mathematically inept.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

But it is usually a waste of time to try to explain those woes to those who participate...

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~ Duane Phillips.

Reply to
Duane Phillips

I'm impressed with your knowledge of history. You aren't a history teacher, by chance, are you?

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Reply to
Mark Simpson

Zooty has it right. ALHA84001 (or ALH84001) was originally classified as a Diogenite (a member of the HED meteorites believed to be from the asteroid Vesta, evidenced by spectra, mostly intact crust on the asteroid, differentiation, etc.).

Something looked funny in the isotope ratios in the crystals and in the trapped gases. Since we had sent a probe to Mars (Viking), and one to Venus (a Russian lander I believe) we have atmospheric gas isotope ratios for both of those planets, as well as Earth gas isotope ratios (seen in Lunar meteorites). They compared the isotope ratios to the various bodies and found that ALHA84001's (and other SNC (Shergotittes, Nahklites, and Chassignites) meteorites) isotope ratios in the gases and crystals matched those of Mars returned by Viking to a very high degree of probability. So they ARE in essence stamped "Imported from Mars" ;) None of this "proves" that any of these meteroites came from said body, but to a high degree of probability this is what is currently widely accepted.

Mike Gerszewski Univ. of North Dakota Space Studies Graduate Assistant

Reply to
Mike Gerszewski

If in fact the isotope ratios in the various planetary environments are sufficiently distinctive, then I would tend to consider this to be decently convincing evidence.

-dave w

Reply to
David Weinshenker

The isotope ratios within the different planets are sufficiently distinctive from each other, but there are other bodies that can fall on the same line with the same isotope ratios, here's an example graph of Oxygen isotope ratios:

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(see graph 2)

For example, the Enstatite Chondrites (E-Chondrites) have Oxygen isotope ratios very similar to those of the Earth and Moon, but this doesn't mean that they came from either of those bodies or that the impactor that made the Moon was an E-Chondrite. It just means that either they came from the same chemical resevoir or from a chemical resevoir similar to that from which the Earth formed.

It is sufficient evidence for the general public, but not meteoriticists. Scientists strive for 100% certainty, but sometimes have to settle for 95%, most of the time much less...

If you take a class on meteorites you would probably learn far more than you want to know ;)

Mike Gerszewski Univ. of North Dakota Space Studies Graduate Assistant

Reply to
Mike Gerszewski

What are you talking about? They're all black! My God man! Your looking through the negative! ; )

Randy

Reply to
Randy

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