possibilities for creating a bill to avoid regulation of model rocketry

If that is the case, then HPR lone rangerism could simply bypass Tripoli entirely and leave their sorry regulation loving asses in the dust.

Obstructing justice.

I clarified this already in a post to my post. I agree, it does look wrong. I wrote that statement in a hurry, but explained later. Please look up the clarification.

This is the prevailing notion. Not many thinking about just how regulated they already are, and easily can (and probably will) become a target.

~ Duane Phillips.

and as I have told you each time you repost what Bill Stine said( like hes god or something).....OUR NAR snuck Chapter 65 into NFPA 1 exactly because the NFPA codes (especially 1125 and 1127) were not be adopted by enough states stand alone. Chapter 65 provides for a backdoor adoption of the 3 nfpa codes.....

I would submit just because hes on the NFPA committee, that doesn't necessarly mean he knows whats going on with NFPA....besides Dane Boles is the Quest Primary rep at the NFPA PYRO committe, Bill Stine is only an alternate which means the only time hes really there is if Dane can't show up.....

You would be surprised how many State Fire Marshalls who have no clue that they have even adopted the NFPA 1122/1125/1127 codes.....

NFPA 1

65-5 Model Rocketry. The design, construction, limitations of propellant mass and power, and reliability of model rocket motors and model rocket motor reloading kits and their components produced commercially for sale to or use by the public for purposes of education, recreation, and sporting competition shall comply with NFPA 1122, Code for Model Rocketry. 65-6 Rocketry Manufacturing. 65-6.1 The manufacture of model rocket motors designed, sold, and used for the purpose of propelling recoverable aero models shall comply with NFPA 1125, Code for the Manufacture of Model Rocket and High Power Rocket Motors. 65-6.2 Permits, where required, shall comply with 1-12.16. 65-7 High Power Rocketry. 65-7.1 The design, construction, limitations of propellant mass and power, and reliability of all high-power rocket motors and motor components produced commercially for sale to or use by the certified user for education, recreation, and sporting competition shall comply with NFPA 1127, Code for High Power Rocketry. 65-7.2 Permits, where required, shall comply with 1-12.16.

why don't you call him and ask him if he knows how many states have adopted NFPA 1 which includes Chapter 65 and therefore NFPA 1122/25/27 are adopted by reference due to chapter 65? shockie B)

This should be in the FAQ.

alex:

In nfpa 1127 and 1125 definitions for model rocket/model rocket motor/high power rocket/high power rocket motor and hybrid motor have defintions.... later in 1125 they reference hybrid high power rocket motors, although there is no formal definition

both 1125 and 1127 define a HPR motor as a motor having more than 160 Ns :

3.3.26.2 High Power Rocket Motor. A rocket motor that has more than 160 N-sec but no more than 40,960 N-sec of total impulse,

or that produces an average thrust of greater than 80 N, or that contains greater than 62.5 g (2.2 oz) of propellant.

3.3.26.3 Hybrid Rocket Motor. A rocket motor in which the fuel exists in a different physical state (solid, liquid, or gaseous)

than the oxidizer and that derives its force or thrust from the combination thereof.

3.3.26.4 Model Rocket Motor. Arocket motor that has a total impulse of no greater than 160 N-sec, an average thrust of no

greater than 80 N, and a propellant weight of no greater than 62.5 g (2.2 oz).

It stands to reason that if you have a hybrid rocket motor that is producing over 160 N-sec then that hybrid becomes a HPR motor under the definition. Once it crosses into the HPR rocket motor category, all of the NFPA codes regrading HPR rocket motors apply whether they are solid,liquid,hybrid,single-use or reloadables... If the hybrid produces less than 160 N-sec than it stands to reason that it is a model rocket hybrid motor. So By extension any HPR rocket motor requires that the user be certed and have at least a L1..... the new G impulse hybrids do not require an L1( I was mistaken on that, BUT you must be at least 18 to purchase one)

Chapter 6 Prohibited Activities

6.1 Prohibited Acts. The following activities shall be prohibited

by this code:

(9) Selling or transfer of a high power rocket motor or motor reloading kit to any person who is not a certified user,

other than the transfer of a single high power rocket motor or motor reloading kit for the purpose of user

certification

(10) Possession, storage, or use of a high power rocket motor or motor reloading kit by any person who is not a certified

user, other than the possession, storage, or use of a single high power rocket motor or motor reloading kit

for the purpose of user certification

Now of course the above analysis is just my interpretation so it doesn't really mean anything.....I suppose you can interpret the NFPA codes anyway you wish...which of course makes them basically meaningless, which is why we have the NFPA codes in the first place. The only person who has the authority to interpret the NFPA codes are the State Fire Marshalls, and I don't think we want to wake them up to their potential responsibilities for regulation, now do we? Let sleeping dogs lie.......

This is why I beleive the NFPA codes are an illusionary regulatory framework: they exist but theu have no real authority as nobody knows they exists therefore they can not be enforced.....A master stroke of genius I might add on the part of G. Harry Stine, although I am not sure thats what he had in mind.....

shockie B)

i really hate it when jerry and i agree on something.......8).......

But as we saw when we tried to challenge APCP being on the list, if it's not already there, the burden is on them to PROVE that the item is an Explosive, instead of something that burns real good.

I'd like to see a change to the law that adopts the scientific / industrial definitions for explosive and deflagrate and that would remove our motors from the list. But I don't see that getting through congress either.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

But these PAD thingies are used by the coast guard to send rescue lines to stranded ships, and by the military to clear mine fields in Iraq.

Maybe there's a different back door: how are the PADs used in the general aviation parachute deployment systems licensed?

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I don't think the guns need be registered, just the owners.

A friend and former NIRA member went and got his FOID not because he owned guns, but to fill their database with useless crap. Perhaps we should ALL get them.

And then go to the library and check out al the subversive books, to keep Ashcroft busy.

Any other suggestions on how to fill up JBGT databases with useless crap?

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

What's it cost? What do you have to do to get one? What information do you have to give up?

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

The dues increase was mostly a result of insurance cost increases. Insurance costs have gone up a bunch since 9/11 and the bursting of the .com bubble. NAR insurance is the single most valuable benefit we get from our membership; without it we'd never be able to get flying fields.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

"pursuit of happiness" is sufficient reason.

And only because they are available and reliable. If Solar ignitors vanished overnight, they would be replaced with flashlight or taillight or Christmass tree light bulbs. And by all rights that green fuse you see in so many stores should be as regulated as thermalite.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Based on the court ruling, I'd think we'd have grounds to challenge the addition of an item for 3-7 years after it was added. The problem with APCP was that it was added 30 years before our challenge.

Which makes me wonder: haven't old established laws been challenged and even taken to the supreme court. Civil rights comes to mind.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

IIRC (recent post from Bunny) no. His involvement was with Sen. Enzi's legislative efforts, which are DOA.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

STINE!

ARCAS...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Aircraft part.

Yes, really.

$5.00. The form is downloadable from the IL state police website in PDF format. Fill it out, attach a picture, mail it in with the fee. They want to know if you have been convicted of a felony in the last

5 years & if you have ever been hospitalized for mental ilness or substance abuse. The rest is name, address, DOB, height, weight, eyecolor, - pretty much what is on your drivers license. And they want either your DL# or state ID# too.

Yep - it almost sucks it down as fast as Jerry taking liberties with the truth in a DOT hearing.