Re: The AT auction

Do not presume my attitude or open disagreement with your openly confrontational attitude toward the orgs as "corruption by consent". If you do you are an example of and idiot. Working within the system to correct problems works wonders, although at a slower and surer pace. Your divisive and pompous atempts/rantings will do nothing but cause the members to disregard your antics as just what they are "antics".

Fred

The NAR does not care what you do outside of NAR sanctioned events. The 'Oath' does not apply to your independant activities and would not be grounds for 'kicking you out'.

It was for years!

God bless this post. How can I help forward THAT proposal?

CURRENT leader no less.

Tripoli 1984-6. NAR 1985-9.

CSFM

NFPA

You are blind.

Jerry

Well, what these prohibitions apply to is activities within the scope of NFPA-1127. In order for that to have general force of law, the "linkage" of the NFPA codes into actual law would require a specification, external to NFPA-1127, that said "it is unlawful to launch any rocket other than 'model' or 'high power' rockets within the scope of NFPA-1122/1127"...

I don't know if it is true in every "NFPA-adoptive" state: what if one were going to launch an industrial sounding rocket with a weather instrument package, for example - would this be illegal on the grounds that it falls outside the scope of NFPA-1127 style "high power rocketry"?

-dave w

No specific cite, I'm afraid... just a general perception of what NAR does and does not consider to be within the scope of "sport rocketry" activities.

-dave w

That is correct. In fact, the NAR Board took action at its February meeting to clarify that we only are concerned about your model rocket and HPR activity. If you want to pursue other activity independently or with another organization we simply do not care.

Mark Johnson Lame-Duck NAR Trustee

Where in the RECORD does it say that?

I presume nothing

I respond to your own position as "openly" stated

Ray:

"Who cares?" "why should either of these orgs pay any attention to you?" "... what are you complaining about??"

Fred:

"What Ray said"

Iz:

"it is this attitude on the part of the members [disregard or disdain for the concerns of prospective members] that will be the single greatest factor in the organizations demise"

when internal policies (and external coauthored regulation) arising from a dysfunctional; i.e., "corrupt" organization; are considered above reproach even by its members (and not merely its leaders), that condition constitutes "corruption by consent"

hence my remark

"corruption by consent, what hope is there for reform?"

your agreement with Ray's remarks does not reflect a commitment to "Working within the system", Fred

- iz

That applies to "high power rocketry" activities only. Otherwise, anyone launching a small sounding rocket, line-throwing rocket, flare rocket, pryotechnic rocket, etc would be breaking the law.

You _can_ engage in rocketry activities outside the scope of NFPA 1127 as long as you comply with the requirements for doing so (pyro license, LEUP, whatever).

IIRC the reason given by TRA for quickly dropping the Kosdon motors had nothing to do with their date code or lack thereof, and everything to do with the paperwork status.

Either the motors were legal, and should have been left alone, or they were not legal, should never have been certified, and should have been removed from the list immediately. Either way what TRA did was wrong. And inconsistent with how other paperwork challenged vendors have been handled.

"S&T really botched the whole Kosdon issue"? More like TRA botched the Kosdon issue. Couldn't figure out how to handle it and be consistent with what they did to Jerry, so they made up new rules.

According to an entry on the NAR S&T web page, "R82 7/11/02 Decertified on

7/1/2005: Kosdon G40-P; G75-7; H70-P; H135-11; I120-P; I130-5; I145-7; I150-6; I170-11; J230-8; J275-6.5; K350-9; K450-12; K700-18; K777-11"

A followup note to that states that in the future all motors will expire at the end f the calendar year. So NAR members with Kosdon reloads have until

12/31/2005 to burn them up. This is based on their certification expirations, and the 3 year grace period that follows.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Ok and tell me during ALL that time how many people were actually thrown out of the NAR ? zero?

shockie B)

Iz,

Dave's assessment is correct; otherwise I'd be getting the boot for my EXploits. This matter was explicitly discussed at the last trustee meeting and the clarification will be apparent when the minutes are approved and circulated. The consensus of the NAR Trustees is that Amateur/Experimental rocketry is outside the scope of our definition of "Sport Rocketry." NAR members can participate in Amateur/Experimental rocketry all they want with the understanding that it is outside the scope of NAR sponsored activity.

John Lyngdal NAR Trustee

ok, thanks Dave

as there should not be any ambiguity about this, I made a formal proposal to the BoT via email to Mark as follows:

Mark,

where is that reflected? Based on your comment, the membership agreement is apparently out of date

from

"I pledge to conduct all my sport rocketry activities in compliance with the NAR Model Rocket Safety Code and the NAR High Power Safety Code."

But what of "model rocket and HPR activity" conducted at launches that are not NAR sanctioned? Are NAR members bound by the NAR safety code at TRA or indy launches when they fly at these launches, or as individuals? Even in their own properties?

- iz

Has a formal definition of sport rocketry been published?

P.S. Wouldn't it be GREAT if every discussion was this matter-of-fact?

So why can't USR take Manufacturer XYZ motors, sell them via XYZ to consumers with INSTRUCTIONS to test them and REPORT RESULTS.

And have all of that activity covered outside of the NAR/TRA/NFPA regime in EVERY state?