Re: The AT auction

The document Jerry has posted several times is the formal record that that did happen.

It's not evident that DOT is "refusing" anything.

Fred W. and TMT certainly appear to be saying that; it's not evident, from what I've seen so far, what DOT themselves are saying (if they're actually saying anything)...

-dave w

What are you worried about, Dave? Isn't Jerry legal? Surely you'd like to see the DOT confirm that once and for all, right? That would make Jerry the victor, and he could spend the next ten years rubbing everyone's noses in it. I'd think you'd be supporting anything that puts this issue to rest at long last.

On the other hand, if he's not legal, and is merely getting away with something by operating under the table (aka "living the lifestyle", "don't ask, don't tell"), then perhaps he shouldn't be telling everyone he's legal and calling people liars and traitors and blaming all his problems on others. That's just asking for trouble.

Nor should he expect to enjoy the same priviledges as those manufacturers who are legal. That's like a crack dealer crying foul 'cause the major drugstore chains won't let him sell his product in their stores.

Everything was fine till the narcs (and I mean MANY) started calling DOT and asking why ACS was so different. DOT became confused (if you considered ATF confused) and said hey we thought we changed those. Turns out those who had NEVER received 1.3C status were changed, but those lucky enough to be modern enough to be issued a UN number got in under the wire.

ACS was one.

But TRA has been trying to screw it ever since.

Jerry

Requiring non-explosives be logged as explosives is ILLEGAL not EXTRALEGAL.

I think most of those of us who are still reading recognized it as sarcasm....

- Rick "Surprised I have to explain this to you" Dickinson

Jerry, Fred, et. seq.,

Amateur Rocketry (by which I mean all non-professional rocketry -- I use the term inclusively) faces quite a few challenges. Some are regulatory, some are perceptual, and a few are personal.

Before we can fix the regulatory challenges facing us (from various governmental agencies, be they DOT, ATF, .ca, or osfm.ca.us), we must first face up to the perceptual problems that all amateur rocketry faces. Like it or not, the general public thinks of rockets as "missiles", in the "weapon" sense. We know they aren't, but the public doesn't. Also, the public fears what it doesn't understand, and it certainly doesn't understand amateur rocketry or amateur rocketeers. Until we can fix the perceptual problems, the regulatory ones will be darn near intractable.

The public thinks we're nuts, in a bad way. We know we're nuts, but in a good way. We're nuts in the sense that we enjoy "burning money" for the privelege of throwing bits of cardboard at the sky. We're nuts the same way that people who build models of ships in bottles are nuts; we are willing to spend silly amounts of time and money on a hobby that few outsiders care about.

Perceptually, we need to get the word out that we're fun nuts, and not scary nuts. People love to hear stories about people who do weird things. Look at your evening news some time -- what stories do they use as "teasers" to keep you watching the whole program? They use the ones like the one about the burglar who got stuck in the air conditioning vent, or the guy who ate a bicycle, piece by piece.

If we want to change regulations, we need to start by changing perceptions. How do we do that? By giving people lots and lots of examples of rocketeers being fun nuts, and being the "good guys". And, by eliminating the things we do and say that make people think we're scary nuts....

Which brings us to the personal challenges I mentioned at the start of this post. There are a lot of people in this hobby who have very strong opinions on a number of issues. I know I do, and I know quite a few others who do, too. Some of us (myself included) lose our temper from time to time, and write or say things that, if we had been calmer, we might have worded a bit more politely.

If we want to change the perceptions in the minds of rocketry "outsiders", we have to learn a bit of diplomacy. We'll never convince anyone that we are fun nuts if we rant like scary nuts at anyone who disagrees with us.

So, acknowledging that differences of opinion will always exist in any diverse group, I think it's time for all of us to make a concious effort to be a bit more polite in the way we express our disagreements. Let's lay off the personal invective, and let's concentrate on doing a few positive things, instead.

We need to cultivate the "hooks" that will get us noticed, in a positive way, by the news media. Is anyone working on a salami-fueled hybrid motor? If so, hype it up! Have some fun with it, and I guarantee that the news media will find a way to mention it in the

10-o-clock news. After all, we've all seen the stories about the guys driving the french-fry-grease-fueled van cross-country. They re-interview those guys every time gas prices spike....

Do a charity fundraiser for a local school's science program by holding a "fly-a-thon" instead of a jog-a-thon; instead of having people pledge money for each lap a student runs, have them pledge money based on how long the student can keep a model rocket in the air (parachute duration). A nickel or dime per second per donor can add up quick if you average minute-long flights....

Get your club to hold holiday-themed odd-roc contests. For the fourth of July, see who can keep the biggest flag flying the longest. For Easter, have a big mass launch of rockets deploying candy-filled plastic eggs on their own parachutes for the kids to find. For Halloween and Christmas, see who can do the best "theme" rockets, whether they are flying witch hats with bat wing fins, or flying Christmas trees that deploy their chutes from under the golden star at the top. Remember: the goofier the better!

Whatever you do, write it up well in advance, and send press releases (with photos of some of the people and rockets) to the news media well before the events. If you have the capability, send your own good-quality video of a wacky rocket flying, or on-board camera footage, along with a press release and a few still photos, to your local TV news team. Make sure that your local reporters know that you're always a good source for goofy yet positive filler pieces to use on slow news days....

- Rick "Goofy yet positive" Dickinson

Yea, your right Rick, I should not pick on Jerry so much. I guess I better not write that book I been threatening jerry with, (I intended to change the names to protect the guilty as well as the innocent). Seriously, I found your post a serious posting, with points worth considering. I'll try to do better. From the GOD Father; "just as I think I'm out of it, they pull me back"(;-)

Fred

Rick Dick>

In order for something to be illegal, there has to be legislation passed that prohibits the activity. Sort of "everything not specifically banned is OK". As such, I find it difficult to believe that any lawmaker would write a law that prevents an individual from keeping more comprehensive records than the minimum.

OK, let us see, how would that have to phrased in a law: "Any person requiring a non-explosive substance to be logged as an explosive is guilty of an offense..." Hmmm. I am only familiar with Canadian law, so I would appreciate a link to a law with words to that efffect.

Leon Kemp CAR S561

jerry said so, Isn't that enough? :)

The RMR news team interrupts this post to ask a simple question.......

Leon, where've you been man? Probably out flying with your daughter no doubt.

Now back to our regularly scheduled argument.... er...uh... discussion.

Dee de de Dee de de.....

Randy

Yes. Absolutely.

You can also drive a car at a TRA/NAR launch without a drivers license.

FLyA

27 CFR 555.141-a-8

per court order

you did not answer Duane's question. Maybe you should learn to read.

By ANY means.

Yes, you should learn to read, by ANY means.

Then maybe you could get yourself a job, so you can pay your bills.

Dealers have an LEDP not an LEUP.....

And illegal as hell!

Please post the law that has been broken by TRA requiring an LEMP.