Re: The AT auction

There are manny who support, in theory, Jerry's position. If I remember, you wrangled it out of me once. However, he has to do the work and stand up for what he believes is right, in an honest and forthright manner; IMO, he has not done that.

I agree and I hope he can, for his benifit, as there are motor manufactures popping up all over. In the certified arena the void is being filled.

Agreed, however and as I said, it is his problem to work out, not mine or yours. For whatever reason, Jerry chooses to address his problems on RMR and has for years, long before I was aware of who JI was. If he believes he is correct, DOT should be his focas now, as ATF appears to be out of the picture, for at least a while longer, maybe years.

Fred

Precisely.

Old Fud Jerry; haven't had contact with DOT concerning you for several years. Other than RMR, your not even on my or the clubs radar screen. Well, maybe trying to keep Ken out of your troubles.

Fred

And communicate that concern UNSOLICITED to an official agency in your official capacity, to wit:

- W.E. "Fred" Wallace, MDRA 6-26-01 letter to DOT

With a large group pf people raising over $300,000 (to get a ruling on the obvious they refused to simply follow - and still do!). Last time Aerotech had a DOT issue TRA raised the money for HIS corporate attorney expenses and that was the benefit for a SOLE vendor.

Wanna donate to my attorney? You already like him. He is a winner.

Jerry

I'm trying, but you keep pulling me back to refute your BS..(;-)

Fred

However unfortunate the contents of that letter are perceived, Jerry's lack of honesty in presenting information is what caused the perception and resulting DOT investigation; hence the reason I washed my hands of additional involvement. If anyone wants to fault me for that, I doubt sleepless nights will be a result for me.

Fred

Still haven't paid those delinquent lawyer bills yet?

I wouldn't call him a winner.

DOT should of been a cake walk for Jerry, years ago. As I have said before; Jerry has been and is his own worst enemy. He should get to it and recover what he can and move on.

Fred

I want the H160 motors..

Fred

Now that is just to many questions for the FAQ, I guess we need an exemption..

Fred

Another FAQ candidate..

Fred

That's correct, Fred has seen it. Have you?

I don't think the DOT gives a damn about "marketing paradigms".

Such emotion.. Is that how you responded to DOT at deposition?? No wonder Bob was so pissed.

Fred

Duh. But you can remove their ability to obtain and use high power motors, by removing their membership (and with it, their cert).

Correct, that's what I've been saying all along.

That's a claim, not a fact. You've provided no mechanism by which that could occur, and in fact you never even mentioned the need for pulling certs until I brought it up.

Such emotion must be overwhelming..(;-)

Fred

This is where I disagree, especially from someone who inadvertently encouraged more problems, not less. Pride needs to be checked. The general pervasive attitude needs to change.

Look at the PAD issue... you are the only one so far to even remotely acknowlege in a round about way that Jerry was right about that, by conceding that his issues are probably solely with DOT now. Point in case, we stood to lose that one in court mostly because it was not used by far and wide in practice. We got lucky... and that only because of conflicting letters from the ATF themselves, and their lack of enforcement over the years, of the opinion they try to postulate today.

Do you not think the same can happen with DOT? They classified the material. They currently don't want to recognize it. You don't see any parrallels here?

Jerry has been the epitomy of the focal point of regulation precisely because he sits smack dab on the dividing line of what is legal. He demands every freedom right up to the line. Fearful people choose added regulation so they can be viewed somehow with higher regard by those who desire to regulate.

The whole attitude of criminalizing the shipping of goods known to be safe to ship needs to change. What did Jerry's past shipping actions have to do with your helping him wrangle future shipping freedom with the DOT?

At the very least, I believe you still owe Jerry an apology. It could actually possibly help to calm some of the trouble that was stirred up by your help... or you can go on blaming all of it on Jerry.

It isn't just about Jerry anymore.

Right now, the orgs should be advancing huge strides to eliminating the requirement of an LEUP and other non-government required documentation. The longer this fails to happen, the worse it gets. This isn't a Jerry issue anymore, but rides on the same general class of perceptions. Public perceptions can be the whole ball game both inside and outside the hobby.

~ Duane Phillips.

Duane replied:

What claims?? I stated the situation as it stands: We have Jerry's word versus the DOT's. The DOT is the Authority Having Jurisdiction. Jerry is not an AHJ, he's just some guy with some papers he claims are valid despite the DOT's objections.

Which of those facts do you dispute?

Yes.

Yes, they are the AHJ. Only the court has the power to trump them. That's why we had to sue them.

It wasn't Jerry who was suing them. TRA/NAR did. That's the correct way to handle it, not pretending the ATF doesn't exist, as Jerry would have us do.

I advise that people take their complaints about incorrect regulation/enforcement to the authorities (courts, etc), not blame TRA/NAR for the actions of the ATF.

Don't we all. ;)

-dave w