I'm looking for some proven schematics for a staging timer, nothing fancy, just something activated by a liftoff switch -or- breakwire, that can ignite 5 Estes-type igniters after a preset delay (about 3 seconds).
Anyone have any URL's?
Thanks Bullpup! The schematic shows it firing a flashbulb, do you know if it will fire (several) estes igniters?
It won't even fire one estes igniter. It'll fire electric matches and flashbulbs only.
In order to fire an estes igniter, you'd need to replace the firing circuit with something _considerably_ more beefy.
It won't even fire one estes igniter. It'll fire electric matches and flashbulbs only.
And likely won't. Daveyfire has "blacklisted" usage of any of their e-matches for rocketry use and are requiring evidence of a LEUP to purchase direct. Call them, like I did, if you like, to confirm. Oxral is the next best thing since sliced bread, are widely available and fire on those puny alkalines you mentioned.
Kooch
Because they do not like working with people that poke the ATF in the penis with a sharp stick.
nix the Oxral without a LEUP. They have required one since the SEA.
from
but you check outQuickBurst igniters at
- iz
Kev>
I'm surprised that more vendors do not offer really low current electric matches.
I believe that the model rocket ignitors are very carefully designed NOT to be classifiable as eMatches of any sort, due to the sometimes and possible BATF regulations surrounding ematches. None of the pyrotechnic dealers are shipping ematches since the 9/11 legislation, and many are requiring evidence of BATF permits in order to purchase them. It's always been ambiguous as to whether ematches should/must be stored in a magazine.
The garden variety ematches used for fireworks are blamed for a lot of the accidents that occur, and it has suprised ME that they don't use LESS sensitive ematches most of the time...
BillW
Now this has me wondering - was there some legal reclassification, specifically, of "E-matches", or is everybody in CYA mode for fear of being "accused of supplying bomb-enabling materials"? Suppliers weren't generally requiring user permits for out-of-state purchases on these, previously, were they?
And if there is a specific new restriction, what legal basis is there for saying that a FirstFire isn't regulated the same way that a DaveyFire is now apparently considered to be?
-dave w
No it hasn't. 27 CFR 55.141-a-7-v exempted all Class C before it was changed to 4 specific UN numbers a couple of years ago.
I think fireworks guys rely more on default rulings of untrained agents (as do rocketeers) than they do on reading and understanding the law. I suppose if you only have a rudimentary education and understanding of the english language, that could be a problem. Low IQ can't help either.
Jerry
27 CFR 55.141-a-7 was changed by a prior NPRM to eliminate the exemption for all Class C (1.4 and 1.5 by referencein DOT regs, special table published just for this purpose). One office of ATF said we made a mistake, inartful drafting. All the other offices immediately began enforcing that PARTICULAR change immediately and as a "top priority" so that ALL fireworks people, fireworks vendors, dump operators (bird repellers), landsacpaers (gopher bombs) and rocketeers ignorant of 55.141-a-8 had to get ATF permits ALL OF A SUDDEN and due to the background checks, now many dumps and landscaping services are safe from hiring felons to work that dirty, crappy, stinky business.
Estes motors are DOT approved "with the igniter" and other laws allow selling spares. I don't have the cite handy (Fred Wallace says cites are not necessary). All you have to do is get a DOT approval of a motor with an Oxral match and done. I did but I am blackballed, I guess somebody else has to spend $10,000 to do it (again).
If you read rec.pyrotechnics, Orxal is not shipping and is requiring LEUPs. I thought one of the motor systems did use an ematch as an igniter to light a grain of BP which in turn fires the APCP. Wouldn't that make them igniters and exempt like estes?
The energetic material at the tip may cause a different classification. On the skylighter website it shows how to make emaches which behave similar to DaveyFire. The dip is darkflash, an explosive. I don't believe the formulations I've seen for igniters fall under the same classification. But then, you can make your own without regulation, other than proper storage.
Joel. phx
One warning and one problem....
warning- dark flash reportedly has critical mass of less than 50 grams, and is, from what I understand, very very sensitive.
problem- Stating you could make your own without regulation is innaccurate. The BATF requires permits for mixing flash powder.
Ben
On
That is incorrect.
Joel. phx
Jerry Irvine wrote: > In article , > Bill Westfield wrote: >
The BATFE never had an exemption for ALL Class C.
The cited paragraph stated:
"The importation and distribution of fireworks classified as Class C explosives and generally known as "common fireworks", and other Class C explosives, as described by U.S. Department of Transportation regulations in 49 CFR 173.100 (p), (r), (t), (u) and (x)."
The (non-blank) DOT citations were for toy caps, toy propellant devices, and explosive car alarms. (Don't ask me what that is because I have no clue.) So electric matches couldn't have fallen into the "other" class C explosive category.
The new version is:
"The importation, distribution, and storage of fireworks classified as UN0336, UN0337, UN0431, or UN0432 explosives by the U.S. Department of Transportation at 49 CFR 172.101 and generally known as "consumer fireworks" or "articles pyrotechnic."
Were electric matches ever considered to be class C common fireworks? If so then they might have been exempt. I suspect that the confusion is more likely due to the BATFE not explicitly listing "electric matches" in their list of regulated explosives but considering them to be in the class "igniters" which are most definitely regulated. (being named in the United States Code)
But what do I know, Jerry has proclaimed me a "moron".
BlackSky used to ship them by US Mail, labeled "Class 1.4S toy propellant devices, surface mail only, handle with care." (Now their webstore is saying they will only sell them to LEUP holders.)
-dave w
Cite:
Igniters are [unhelpfully] explicitely listed in the enabling legislation (definitions) and also on the list of explosives. EM's are igniters.
? 841. Definitions (d) Except for the purposes of subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), and 0) of section 844 of this title, "explosives" means any chemical compound mixture, or device, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion; the term includes, but is not limited to, dynamite and other high explosives, black powder, pellet powder, initiating explosives, detonators, safety fuses, squibs, detonating cord, igniter cord, and **IGNITERS**. The Secretary shall publish and rise at least annually in the Federal Register a list of these and any additional explosives which he determines to be within the coverage of this chapter. For the purposes of subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), and (i) of section 844 of this title, the term "explosive" is defined in subsection
0) of such section 844.
You are but try and change.
And before I lose track of it here is the DOT table of references for old vs new (Class C is 1.4)
Former Class C Explosives exemption was addressed by DOT as follows
Provisions for using old classifications of explosives 49 CFR 173.53
Where the classification system in effect prior to January 1, 1991, is referenced in State or local laws, ordinances or regulations not pertaining to the transportation of hazardous materials, the following table may be used to compare old and new hazard class names: Current Classification Class name prior to Jan 1, 1991 Division 1.1 Class A explosives Division 1.2 Class A or Class B explosives Division 1.3 Class B explosives Division 1.4 Class C explosives Division 1.5 Blasting Agents Division 1.6 No applicable hazard class
"Joel Corwith"
Not to sound like an ass, but have you looked at the BATF stance on this? Flash powder is listed as an explosive-
I have heard of ATF agents saying any one of these can be used, but I guess that would be another one of those differences between agents. Also, If your so inclined to dig through the ATF site sometime in the early or mid 1990's they reclassified flash powder and changed the storage requirements from a type 4 to a type 1 magazine. I am not entirely familiar with magazine types, but FWIW, that's what's required.
Not to be an ass, but have you talked to anyone in the know about fireworks? You are not a manufacturer if you produce fireworks for your personal use. You do not need a license to use unless you engage in commerce (buy it). BlackPowder IS on the explosives list and commonly made for homemade fireworks. You do NOT need a license to do so if you are not using it for profit (no for-pay shows). APCP is listed in the explosives list and even if it wasn't a PAD, you STILL wouldn't need a license if you make it yourself.
Have you reviewed PGI Bulletin No. 119 or discussed this issue further with Inspector Gene Baker? If so and he has updated the ATFs position, I'd love to see his comments.
Joel. phx
And if you're inclinded to contact him, ask what magazine would be required to store none as you destroy the rest of a 2g batch after making ematches.
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