When are motors to be de-certified?

NAR and TRA have already substituted their judgement for DOT's.
Jerry
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
Loading thread data ...
Is Iz not free to start a yaoo group strictly for TRA members to openly discuss pressing issues?
Joel. phx
formatting link

Reply to
Joel Corwith
Oh man! Stop pointless yahoogroup proliferation! If we all started yahoogroups everytime we got in an argument, then everybody would be alone in their own yahoogroup and nobody would ever communicate...
-dave w
Reply to
David Weinshenker
What's wrong with this group? Invite them here.
Oh yeah, TRA BOD doesn't want the general membership to know that rmr exists. Too much truth for them? I guess that an open yahoo group would be treated the same way.
Bob
Reply to
baDBob
They already know you and me...
Sacrifice a chicken to Kurt...
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
Not when you take 501c3 status to avoid payment of taxes...
Not in violation of your own bylaws. Which are only enforced when its against someone the management doesn't like. There's enough irregularities just in my expulsion to have the whole BoD impeached and expelled. Of course it will NEVER happen.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
Neither do I. At least not anything you find in a typical bar. I've got some half bottles of wine in the basement by the Cinerocs and LJ2 that go for $80 per 375ml bottle!
What keeps me out of most bars is the smoke. I get headaches being anywhere near it.
So of course TRA meetings require large amounts of nicotine and alcohol...
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
You would love CA!
Jerry
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
Oh, no! Another glue thread!!!
David Erbas-White
Reply to
David Erbas-White
awesome!
- iz
Jerry Irv> >
Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed
why limit this discussion to members? Do not TRA policies affect all rocketeers (e.g.; NFPA, [cross-]certifications, etc.)?
why create a new venue, when this venue is here, universally accessible, well known, and populated with hundreds, if not thousands of interested parties (most of whom choose to be silent 99% of the time)
- iz
Joel Corwith wrote:
Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed
Actually they are the reason there is a problem in the first place. They require things they should not, and they woke the sleeping giant in the process for reasons the sleeping giant does not understand, nor care about. TRA moreso.
~ Duane Phillips.
Reply to
Duane Phillips
Let me guess...some nice Trockenbeerenauslese?
Reply to
Anonymous
Not only did I forward the fax, I had several phone conversations with Carol Monrow, resulting in me being contacted by a DOT investigator. I still have the package you sent me, that I forwarded by fax. It is in a file and I'm sure I printed and attached the fax report printout to the package. Maybe I'll scan it and post it to an open forum, as I have no intention of just faxing it to you. Check your old emails for dates, I know and remember that I sent you emails after the package was faxed.
I still find it strange, you never called or made contact with Carol at DOT. However, I have it from a pretty good source, the investigative arm of DOT contacted you after they received the package you provided me and I faxed to them.... Maybe I should give them a call and see what's shaking over at DOT, i.e. good old Bob... Would you like me to do that for ya Jerry????(:-)
Fred
Jerry Irv> >
Reply to
W. E. Fred Wallace
I'm happy for ya Bubba..(:-)
Duane Phillips wrote:
Reply to
W. E. Fred Wallace
Bob, Between you and Ray, I do believe you both understand who the proper entity that needs to "sees them" first. I sure as hell never intended to make my opinion/view into law that didn't exist...(:-)
Fred
baDBob wrote:
Reply to
W. E. Fred Wallace
=== reference:
NFPA 1125 - Code for the Manufacture of Model Rocket and High Power Rocket Motors, 2001 Ed. (excerpted for editorial review)
3.3 General Definitions.
3.3.26.2 High Power Rocket Motor. A rocket motor that has more than 160 N-sec but no more than 40,960 N-sec of total impulse, or that produces an average thrust of greater than 80 N, or that contains greater than 62.5 g (2.2 oz) of propellant.
8.2 Certification of High Power Rocket Motors, Motor-Reloading Kits, and Components.
8.2.1 A prerequisite for certification of a high power rocket motor or motor-reloading kit shall be its prior classification by DOT, or competent authority as a Division 1.3. or 1.4 explosive, or a written acknowledgment from DOT, or one of its approved testing agencies, that the high power rocket motor or motor-reloading kit is a flammable solid.
8.2.2 A high power rocket motor or motor-reloading kit not containing pyrotechnic materials shall not be required to have a certificate of classification.
=== parse 8.2.1:
A prerequisite for certification of a high power rocket motor or motor-reloading kit shall be a) its prior classification as a Division 1.3 or 1.4 explosive by i) the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT), or ii) competent authority
or
b) a written acknowledgment that the model rocket motor or motor-reloading kit is a flammable solid from i) DOT, or ii) one of its approved testing agencies
=== observations:
1. USR motors of H impulse or greater are by definition, high-power rocket motors, as per 3.3.26.2
2. if USR motors tested as "unregulated" hazard class can be said to contain no "pyrotechnic materials", a certificate of classification is not required as per 8.2.2 However (and in any case) as per 8.2.1 there is no provision for _certification_ of high-power rocket motors made from materials in the unregulated hazard class
3. as per 8.2.1, although classification of 1.3 or 1.4 explosives are acceptable from a "competent authority", there is no provision for acknowledgement of flammable solids by a "competent authority" (only DOT or "its approved testing agencies")
ergo
NFPA 1125 is fundamentally flawed
- iz
Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed
He probably didn't inhale either..(:-)
Jerry Irv> Buying someone a drink makes them your freind for life :)
Reply to
W. E. Fred Wallace
Now you have it almost right also.
It's TRA/NARS business, if Jerry wants to certify his motors. He may not like it, along with others, but that's the way it is... However, as I have suggested to Jerry in many posts over the past few years, many of us in independent clubs are not concerned with TRA/NAR certification; only the legal hazmat shipping issue is a concern.
Think about it Bob; I bet you have an inspection stamp assigned to you, would you place your stamp on a hazmat item and place it into the supply chain, without raising a red flag, if you had knowledge or a suspicion of a DOT hazmat problem???
Fred
Reply to
W. E. Fred Wallace
A shipment can be determined to be a proper shipment by visual inspection of the documents, the package, the labels and the contents.
Maybe not even the contents.
Jerry
Reply to
Jerry Irvine

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.