Which Hybrid do YOU think is the best for HPR???

Well...as an alternative to lawyers, LEUP's (or is thst LRRP's?) multiple permits and a raft of fees I are lookin at these...using Pratt Hobbies as a
reference guide.
I notice that the specific thrust is much lower but the "burn" time is nearly double...does this partially make up for the diminished raw power as opposed to solids?
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TheOutcast wrote:

Doug's wesbite is the best place for info: http://www.flyhybrids.org /

Yes, hybrids are inherently lower thrust. Not intended for heavy rockets compared to the total impulse class.
The rocket's motor mount must be very long compared to a solid motor. I have a Rattworks I90 motor that is about 3ft long!
You will need to supply recovery electronics and your own ejection charge system. The standard method uses black powder which still requires a LEUP if you want to buy it and store it yourself.
-John
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I don't know about "diminished raw power;" it depends on how you look at it. There are hybrids that will lift 100 pound rockets.
Generally speaking, though, you're right. At the present state of the technology, hybrids tend to be long burn motors, which means they deliver lower levels of initial thrust.
I've never considered hybrids a substitute for conventional motors...or anything else for that matter. They are a different type of motor that should be evaluated on their own terms. I suppose it's inevitable that we compare them to solid motors, since those are our main points of reference. But the general conception of hybrids as "wimpy" is annoying to me. That's what model airplane people thought of electric powered RC airplanes a few years ago...in spite of the fact that the world speed record is held by an electric powered RC sailplane.
Sorry to be so general. Let's get specific.
If you want to get into hybrids, your big choice is between pyrotechnic ignition and GOX-based ignition. It's cheaper to get into pyro-based ignition, since the GSE costs about half as much; all you need is a NOX tank and the first two modules of my RTLS system, or roll your own ignition and valve setup. The limitation is the number of motors available: at this time, RATT Works H, I and K; West Coast I; and Propulsion Polymers H, I and J. The good news is that RATT Works is testing an L and an M, West Coast is testing an L and some others, and ProPoly has announced two Js and two Ks. So the motor range for pyro-ignition hybrids is improving.
If you go with GOX-based ignition you're looking at more GSE, but you get your hands on the 39 different HyperTEK motor combinations, from I through M. HyperTEK motors are elegant, exciting, well-made systems that are backed up by an outstanding company. (Of course, so are RATT, ProPoly and WCH. I know all these people and am proud to work with them.) And you can use your GOX-based GSE to fire any commercially available hybrid motor.
I'll get commercial now (forgive me; the mortgage is due). I can get you into pyro-ignition hybrids for about $500, with a 20 pound tank and Modules 1 and 2 of the RTLS. For the GOX-based system it's more complicated, but as a reference point, if you wanted what I call the "everything system," including a 20 pound tank, an X-Rockets drop-down launcher, two fill stems (one for J-L and one for M HyperTEK) and all the hoses and stuff, you're looking at about $1400. You can of course spend less by getting a GOX-based system that doesn't do M motors, or uses a different setup than the X-Rockets drop-down launcher, but that's what you would spend for top-of-the-line. And I really strongly recommend the X-Rockets drop down launcher. What you spend on that you will save in the cost of replacing fried fill stems or motors that bind on the stem for some reason. I will also point out that you can start with the pyro-ignition system and add on the GOX-ignition stuff later. And of course, you can use the RTLS to fire conventional solid fuel motors.
I hope this is helpful. I've spent a lot of time over the past five years talking to people who started the conversation with, "Well, I can't get a LEUP, so I guess I have to look at hybrids." That's not the way to look at it. Hybrids are very exciting motors in their own right, not a substitute for anything. Once people see a few of them fly, the attitude becomes "I've gotta do that!" There is something deliciously NASA-ish about tanking a vehicle on the pad, and it stretches out that moment of anticipation (sometimes almost unbearably, as Robert deHate will attest!).
Doug Pratt www.pratthobbies.com www.flyhybrids.org

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snipped-for-privacy@rocketryonline.com (Doug Pratt) wrote in message

Doug, I'm beginning to get pissed off by my "annual" visits by the BATF in which I have to take a morning off to educate a newbie agent about rocketry and wonder why they're visiting me when I don't even have a magazine to inspect. But, since I fly rockets that have less-than-optimal aerodynamic properties........OK, I'll level with you, I like to fly lead sleds. Can you tell me which Hybrid can safely boost a 60 pound traffic barrel (weight before motor)?
Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers
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snipped-for-privacy@home.com (Mark Simpson) wrote:

27 CFR 55.141-a-8
Jerry told you so.
Jerry

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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60 pounds, huh? Hm. I did a spreadsheet figuring the initial thrust of the HyperTEK motors and using the five-to-one rule to calculate max dry weight of the rocket. The spreadsheet is posted on the HyperTEK page of www.flyhybrids.org if you want to check it out.
Looks like the M960 would do the job; that's a nice motor. 2800 cc tank, baby M, pretty cheap ticket for an M flight. Several of the bigger Ms will work too. If you've got some sort of rail guidance, I would be willing to consider the L740.
snipped-for-privacy@home.com (Mark Simpson) wrote in message

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<< Looks like the M960 would do the job >>
How long is that motor? Seems to me the biggest problem of flying Mark's traffic barrel on a hybrid M would be accomodating the length of the motor.
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RayDunakin wrote:

Also, it's 60 pounds without a motor. What's the weight of an M960Hybrid? I'm game if it hcan handle the job. I'm not married to solids. ;-) Besides, imagine the resonance chamber that the barrel's recessed base would make.
Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers
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Mark Simpson wrote:

And Mark, where is this piece of gaseous engineering supposed to escape the clutches of gravity? Huh? Huh? I wanna see this baby with the plume pouring out the sides, top, maybe the bottom of the barrel. It will, of course, need the obligatory strobe lights and the 'fines doubled in works zones' sign.
Chuck

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Chuck Rudy

VooDoo Digital Productions
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Chuck, I'm considering flying the FTBOD ay LDRS2004 in NY. If I can do so on a hybrid, that'd be extra cool.
Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our Peacekeepers
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Mark Simpson wrote:

I'll be there with the camera......you get the hybrd worked out and it'll be extra cool. Maybe even one or two of Art Upton's cameras on board ! ;-)
Chuck
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Chuck Rudy

VooDoo Digital Productions
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snipped-for-privacy@home.com (Mark Simpson) writes:

Hmmm, I've not had annual visits. Just several at the beginning, and the 9/11 followup. I've NEVER wasted my vacation time to deal with this. I make THEM fit MY schedule. After all, the hours on my application do NOT say 8-5 M-F!
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD says...

You keep your collection of 1/4A motors in a magazine?
--
Kurt Kesler


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(Mark Simpson) writes:

Hey, quit picking on him. He has a -full- A motor too. He keeps it in a safe place on the top shelf, "out of the reach of children" because the label says so.
steve
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Brings up and interesting question. How do you store high flammables in and about the house?
Mine are in several fire safes.
Joel. phx
My hypertek grains are laying about, as inert as the kids toys.

safe place on

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In Their shipping boxes id the prooper method. I suggest within 3 steps of the door or where possible in an outbuilding.

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

So I should move them away from the fireplace? They add such decor, and are wonderful conversation pieces. I was a little worried about the temperature cycling at first, but realized the mantle is a bad spot--temps go over 180 degrees when I really crank it up with a great load of maple, but alongside is something I can live with as the heat goes forward and up.........AND if the fire is a little slow I can drop a litttle Blue Thunder slug in to help it along, just like the New Hampshire State Police did to their barbeque!! :-)
Chuck
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Chuck Rudy

VooDoo Digital Productions
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Ya, Doug, I guess I will have to. I might even see if you will bring me a 20# N2O tank to LDRS if your are attending next year. I know you get them from someone else, but maybe we can work a deal. People give me crap about hybrids all the time but I dont care they are fun. I got into them way before the fire or the legislation. I just liked the complixity, call me crazy but I liked it. Took me over 3 years to build my hypertek setup, because I was building it slowly. Now my club here in Mass gets the advantage of that. Thanks Doug, you helped me see the 'gas' of hybrids ;-)
Robert DeHate

multiple
as a

as
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<< People give me crap about hybrids all the time but I dont care they are fun. I got into them way before the fire or the legislation. I just liked the complixity, call me crazy but I liked it. >>
I hate the complexity, but I love watching and hearing them fly. Haven't done any hybrids yet myself but our club flies a lot of them. When I finally do my Level 3, it will most likely be on a hybrid. In fact, I plan to do a test flight first with a hybrid L.
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The technology is improving. It took a dramatic leap when Dave Griffith put the floating-injector valve hybrids on the market, and another dramatic leap when Cesaroni took over the HyperTEK line. That's not knocking Korey or the other HyperTEK folks...it's saying that Cesaroni took their work and ran with it.
I see the big problem with hybrids as information, not engineering. The products and systems available are elegant, reliable, and excellent value. What's inadequate are the instructions. This is a problem with all hobbies...for many years, if someone asked me how to learn to fly an RC helicopter, the best advice I could give them was "find someone else who is already flying them, and make friends."
That's why I cranked up www.flyhybrids.org, and why I'm working on more articles and another book. If I could just have a 36 hour day, I'd be all set...
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote in message

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