Air Brush for rank amateur. need help!

fine scale modeler mag says that an amateur with a trumpter me 109g
could use a vega 1000 by Thayer and Chandler for $125. They also
mention the Aztec A430. How difficult are these to use and is there
anything cheaper? I want to paint my plane to look realistic. there is
no sense spending 250 hrs on something and then having it look like a
1/100 tamayia. the hobby shop that we have all come to know and love
in nj says that airbrushing is very difficult. I want to paint the
1/24 model with camoflage paint as shown in the directions. i might as
well use a paint brush if i can't airbrush it. any suggestions of a
helpful nature. thanks in advance.
Reply to
spamlapper
Loading thread data ...
Airbrushing isn't difficult- it just takes some practice. Use a bunch of cardboard and paint to get the hang of painting evenly and doing stripes of different widths. Thinning the paint correctly needs some practice, too. Most authorities tell you to get the consistency of milk. Re price- I just got a gravity feed (cup on top) Iwata Eclipse from Dixie Art for Xmas- She-who-must-be-obeyed decided to let me pick out my own present so that it was exactly right. The cost including a new hose was about $106.00. I have a compressor already- it cost about $150 (Costco) but it's really bigger than I need. Wal-Mart sells one for about a hundred that works well. I also have a pressure regulator and a moisture trap (Moisture? in 29 Stumps? Hah!) so my whole setup cost me about $300 total. Remember that most of that cost is pretty long term- my old compressor died after about 10 years of use. The key is getting good stuff and taking the time to fool around A LOT before putting paint to valuable plastic. Hope this helps, and remember to have fun!
Reply to
Jim Atkins
If you plan to spend 250 hours on a model, you should not feel put out by spending two or three hours practicing with a new airbrush before trying to paint anything on the model. The shop is right, it is a tool that takes some practice. However a couple of hours is enough practice time to get you in shape for some decent painting.
Problem comes when someone buys a brush, having never used an airbrush before, and tries to paint a model with the brush right out of the box.
Either use old scrap kits, scrap parts, or spare styrene stock, and go ahead and spend a few hours getting to know an airbrush. You won't be sorry. Try thinning to different viscosities, try varying pressure, etc.
spamlapper wrote:
Reply to
Don Stauffer
Alot of you guys mention price. I think if the rank amatuer went straight for a Trumpeter 1/24 kit bought at retail then price should not come into consideration. Personally I own several Paasche, Badger, and Thayer and Chandler (now Badger). My favorite is and always will be my 25 year old single action Paasche H-3 my dad bought me and I learned on in High School drafting class. I just bought one for my daughter for the lowly sum of 40.00! Thats because I think it is alot of brush for the money, will last forever, and will do damn near anything you ask of it providing you have some talent and are not into Tamiya 1/100 models. :-0 Also we are so very Po.
Personally however, I would go for a Paasche AB Turbo (always wanted to try one) and one of those Badger Million-Air silent compressors. This set up should give you and absolute stunning finish. The AB can get a hairs width line and was used for photo retouching and fine art way before Photo-Shop. The Silent Air compressor should be so quiet you can hear your splinter camo drying as it hits the model.
Good Luck, Max Bryant
Reply to
Max Bryant
*major snippage)
Has anyone actually tried one of these turbo airbrushes using model paint? I bought a used one several years ago just because it was priced right ($50.00 Canadian). The air turbine actually drives a very small needle back and forth in front of the air stream. The needle picks up the liquid being sprayed, and it is blown off the tip. I only tried it with some colored ink, and it seemed to work OK. I never did try it with lacquer based paint that I normally use, nor with acrylic, feeling the small needle and aperture would be too susceptible to clogging as the paint dried. Acrylic is bad enough in a regular double action brush.
This particular Paasche was a left handed model, and I am right handed. It meant the turbo housing was in the front of the brush, and the needle was on the other side, making it awkward to use. I sold it later on eBay. It seems to me this airbrush would be more suited to the graphic arts industry, using inks rather than hobby paints.
BB in Canada
Reply to
Railfan
I disagree with the suggestion of jumping up right off with a double action airbrush.
First things come first, and that means mastering the basic concepts required: mixtures, distances, spray patterns, on/off of the brush, and most of all consistency. It's easier to do this with a single action than a double action.
FSM did a brilliant job of roundup up DA brushes and gave the most common (and reasonably priced ones). But I don't recall -- did they do a similar piece on SA brushes?
For the very new user, a single-action brush is where all you control is the airflow. You adjust the paint flow separately by either screwing a needle in or out (in cuts flow, out increases it) or adjusting a sleeve the same way. The Paasche H-3 (3 indicated medium tip) is a sleeve type, as the Badger 350. The Badger 200 is a needle type.
The DA brushes adjust paint flow by pulling back the trigger; depressing it adjusts the air. The Atzeks and Badger 150 work that way, as does the Paasche VL. They require a much finer touch to operate.
I do agree -- get a compressor. A Badger 180 is fine for a start and is less than $200 new. Also note you will need a water trap in line with the hose to prevent nasty spits and snarls that can ruin a finish.
Cookie Sewell AMPS
Reply to
AMPSOne
I disagree. I used an SA for many years before getting a DA. I had to unlearn some things that were reflex actions on the SA before I could start getting the moves right on the DA.
I don't really believe it would be any harder to go directly first to the DA. One can operate the DAs essentially as an SA by merely depressing only in the same fore and aft spot.
A lot of airbrushing is acquired reflex action based on messages from brain to finger that starts as thoughts and with practice become reflex.
I am trashing my existing DA brush and planning on getting a new one. I suspect, since I am moving to a different make and model, to have to spend an hour or two getting the feel of the new brush.
For now, I am back with my 20+ year old Badger SA brush. Sure is a durable son-of-a-gun, that has stood a lot of abuse as a backup brush.
AMPS>
Reply to
Don Stauffer
Obviously I disagree with your disagreement since I think I was the first one on the thread to suggest going straight to a double action airbrush if that's what suits your intended usage :-) Pulling a trigger back is hardly the kind of thing to make a double action brush harder to use. And no airbrush I've ever used lets you "control" the airflow. Yes technically all airbrushes let you "control" the airflow as in turn it on and off at will but "control" to me implies adjusting the pressure as well and saying the brush lets you control the airflow to me sounds like you can adjust the pressure on the fly much as you can the paint flow on a double action airbrush, that would be a cool feature though--would that be a triple action brush :-)
As Don Stauffer said much of 'learning' to use an airbrush is really developing reflexes and switching from a single action airbrush to a double action airbrush is mostly a matter of unlearning certain reflexes and learning new ones to replace them. This is the reason I advocate going directly to a double action airbrush in the beginning. The ONLY advantage a single action airbrush has over a comparable double action airbrush is that it costs less.
Jeff IPMS something or other
Reply to
Jeffery S. Harrison
Actually the better made brushes do let you control the airflow. Note airflow, not airpressure. What you can control is the volume of air passing through the brush. Flow rate is measured in CFM, pressure in PSI....they are not the same thing.
"Jeffery S. Harrison" wrote
Reply to
Ron
As another rank amateur I'd like to offer my recent experience in hope that you'll find it useful. I purchased a single action Paasche H airbrush from DixieArt dot com. Look under airbrush inventory and you'll find the H model, a parts illustration and best of all, a blister pack kit, w/ airbrush, hose, air-can adaptor and wrench for less than $30. There is another blister pack that has a more extensive parts inventory, however, I was advised to go with the less expensive of the two. I'm not sorry that I saved roughly $20. Dixie also has a very informative tutorial on getting started without a lot of hype and sales pitch. The Paasche H is made from machined & chromed brass while the rear portion (the handle) is red plastic. Next, I visited Wal-Mart and got a Campbell Hausfeld 2 gal compressor for about $85, an inline filter/water trap, and a blister pack containing adaptors, quick disconnect fittings, air-chuck, blow-gun, sports equipment needle for another $40. I'm in for $155.00, **less than the cost of several high end airbrush types. I find the Paasche H with a #3 tip works great, is super easy to clean and parts readily available, not that I think I'm going to need parts any time soon, but I would like to get a #1 (fine) tip to continue experimenting. I started practicing on white Styrofoam plates, no runs, drips, sags or "spitting stipples". It's also a good way to gauge color and paint viscosity on the upward curved sidewall of the plate. I was reliably informed to try using 25 pounds pressure (set on compressor regulator) and to thin enamel paints between 15 and 20%. So far, I've successfully painted a camo Curtis P40 "flying tiger" using old, camo tan, and sky blue (underside) and yellow zinc chromate on interior surfaces. I found that shooting "Future" (no dilution) was as easy as shooting paint. I started a P51-D Mustang, also 1:48 tonight with a base coat of testors silver enamel thinned 20% without incident. Cleanup took less than 10 minutes (including me). I shoot mineral spirits until there is no color going onto the paper towel, and follow with a quick dis-assemble (you'll need to obtain a small hex wrench) and brief soak in lacquer thinner (cone and needle) brush one with a small stiff stencil brush, and a small length of pipe-cleaner, reassemble, and one final spritz of mineral spirits to leave a trace of ultra light oil in the brush. DixieArt had my order in my hands in 7 days after I ordered it, all dropshipped directly from Paasche. I decided to start on 3, 1:48 prop jobs from Wal-Mart, $7.87 each to learn on, as above and an A6M Zero. The kits are inexpensive, fit well and are all skill level 2. Tomorrow will bring decals to the P40 and an overcoat of Future and in 2 days afterward, a couple of light passes with dull coat and finito, my first model airplane in 40 years. Your performance and mileage may vary, but for my part, I couldn't be more pleased with the outcome relative to the effort put in and dollars invested. Good Luck and Good Hunting!! Bruce
Reply to
Bruce W. Apple MA, NCC
Spam,
When I was in your position way back in the day and having never used an airbrush I started with the Badger 200 model featured in the recent FSM airbrush round-up (part#1). The Badger 200 is single action, meaning the controls are very simple; when connected to the air source, the trigger button on top when pressed controls the air and the knurled knob at the rear controls the paint volume...simple as that and most single-action airbrushes are. Other single action airbrushes like the ones featured in the FSM article are excellent choices especially the Paasche-H, you just can't go wrong with it. Having owned both I'd like to point out a interesteing difference in that because the Badger 200 design is similar to traditional double-action airbrushes, the 200 is able to spray finer lines than say the Badger 350, or Paasche-H. It has over-all finer spraying characteristics similar to its double-action brother the 150. So if I had to recommend a good, top of the line single action it would be the easy to use Badger 200 single action. Go to the following web sites for prices and information:
The Badger website for complete info and specifications:
formatting link

For the best prices on airbrushes on the net with free shipping:
formatting link

Good luck and happy modelling!
Greg Williams IPMS/ Roscoe Turner Chapter Greenwood, IN.
Reply to
Greg Williams
a vega 1000 by Thayer and Chandler for $125. They also mention the Aztec A430...How difficult are these to use and is there anything cheaper?>> Well, yes, you could use the aforementioned airbrushes, or a Paasche, or Badger, or.... Will you get the results you want with any of them? As an amateur with no airbrush experience, I find it incredibly unlikely. Is using an airbrush difficult? Well, yea. Like anything else, it is if you've never done it; that's where P&E come in handy (practice and experience). I think you should set aside the expensive 109 until you get some practice and experience on pieces you can tolerate throwing away. Some people suggest using cardboard as a practice medium, but based on experience, I'd say use plastic of one type or another, e.g. cheap kits, soda bottles, whatever. Simply because cardboard/paper is absorbent, it won't yield the same results as plastic, which is what models are made of. Talk to the people at the hobby shop, or a local art supplier about lessons. We have local airbrush artists who give lessons for a reasonable fee. You can obviously learn on your own, but nothing can compare to having experience looking over your shoulder. Yes, there are both "cheaper" and "less expensive" airbrushes (there is a difference). I have never owned anything but a Paasche VL, and I love it. I used a Badger 200 briefly, but not enough to form an opinion. From everything I've read, a Badger 200 is an excellent airbrush, can be had for around $50 (someone please coorect if I'm wrong). I paid $60 for my Paasche VL at Dick Blick eight years ago, and the price is about the same now. I bought my nephew an Aztec set in the fancy wood case because he thought that one was the greatest thing since sliced bread, based on little more than appearance. He used it about three months, said he hated it, sold it and bought a Badger. I don't use a compressor; I can't afford the super quiet models, they need electricity to operate, are susceptible to moisture problems, are not totally portable, and they all pulse to some degree. I use Nitrogen from a local welding equipment supplier (ok, screw it, I'll give Praxair a free plug). A "Q" bottle ran me $55 deposit, and $17 for a fill. Depending on how often you paint, it could easily last a year. I bought an old oxygen regulator from a gov't surplus store for $15, which needed a $3 fitting because oxygen and Nitrogen regulators have different fittings to attach to the tank. A gauge specifically for an airbrush was $25 from Hobby Lobby. Total investment $175, including the airbrush, done deal. I can take it anywhere, doesn't need electricity, Nitrogen is a bone dry gas so no need for a moisture trap, smooth non-pulsing supply, and the only noise is the hiss of the airbrush. I've done work in garages where they have a nice large compressor, but I tell them to shut that noisy SOB off and use my Nitrogen. While I'm working I can have a nice conversation, or listen to music, with no compressor noise.
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. --Leonardo Da Vinci It's better to teach a child what you know than what you think.
Reply to
Disco -- FlyNavy

Site Timeline

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.