As I understand it, a detainee is considered a POW until a tribunal determines he is an unlawful combatant. As Modeleral points out, there IS a clear legal difference. It would seem to me to be a simple matter to hold these tribunals and proceed accordingly, than to keep the detainees in a legal black hole. Kim M
"Al Superczynski" wrote
Nah, I saw it, just didn't think it was warranted.
KL
Believe it or not, I concur. But I *don't* advocate turning them loose absent said tribunals.
"Royabulgaf" wrote
Well, close.
If there is a _question_, their status will be determined by tribunal, but if there is no question, there is no protection: "Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4 [see next paragraph], such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal. (1949 Geneva Prisoner of War Convention (GPW), art.
5.)"Article 4 says that to be considered a "member of a militia or volunteer corps", the personnel must fulfill the following conditions: (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; and (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
What of those people who are clearly unlawful? Back to the GPW:
"60. General Division of Enemy Population "The enemy population is divided in war into two general classes:
"a. Persons entitled to treatment as prisoners of war upon capture, as defined in Article 4, GPW (par. 61).
"b. The civilian population (exclusive of those civilian persons listed in GPW, art. 4), who benefit to varying degrees from the provisions of GC (see chs. 5 and 6 herein).
"Persons in each of the foregoing categories have distinct rights, duties, and disabilities. Persons who are not members of the armed forces, as defined in Article 4, GPW, who bear arms or engage in other conduct hostile to the enemy thereby deprive themselves of many of the privileges attaching to the members of the civilian population."
and
"80. Individuals Not of Armed Forces Who Engage in Hostilities
"Persons, such as guerrillas and partisans, who take up arms and commit hostile acts without having complied with the conditions prescribed by the laws of war for recognition as belligerents (see GPW, art. 4; [the four conditions I noted above]), are, when captured by the injured party, not entitled to be treated as prisoners of war and may be tried and sentenced to execution or imprisonment.
"81. Individuals Not of Armed Forces Who Commit Hostile Acts "Persons who, without having complied with the conditions prescribed by the laws of war for recognition as belligerents (see GPW, art. 4), commit hostile acts about or behind the lines of the enemy are not to be treated as prisoners of war and may be tried and sentenced to execution or imprisonment. Such acts include, but are not limited to, sabotage, destruction of communications facilities, intentional misleading of troops by guides, liberation of prisoners of war, and other acts not falling within Articles 104 and 106 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and Article 29 of the Hague Regulations.
"82. Penalties for the Foregoing
"Persons in the foregoing categories who have attempted, committed, or conspired to commit hostile or belligerent acts are subject to the extreme penalty of death because of the danger inherent in their conduct(*). Lesser penalties may, however, be imposed."
FM 27-10, The Law of Land Warfare
Note that the other treaty provisions regarding treatment, discipline, rights, and sundry other aspects are deliberately and specifically prefaced with "The prisoner of war shall be entitled to. . ." or other similar words.
You might argue whether a particular person falls under article 80 or 81, but you must acknowledge that we most certainly have captured people who do. These people are - at best - entitled to be tried under the UCMJ and hanged, and have it all perfectly within US laws.
What about International Law? If, by your actions, you have removed yourself from the PW classification, International Law washes its hands of you, and you are at our mercy. And, it seems we are fresh out of mercy at the moment.
KL
Isn't mercy within Allah's purview?
Ron> Isn't mercy within Allah's purview? I asked, but there was no reply...
"Ron" wrote
Who?
Remember, we're fighting on against irrationality.
KL
There you go again, answering my rational with your own.......
Actually, I was referring to the current crop of unlawful enemy combatants, since Allah is all merciful, mercy is his problem, not ours.
"Ron" wrote
I don't concern myself with mythical figures.
As long we tolerate the idea that the "afterlife" is more important than the corporeal world, we will always have fanatics of one stripe or another. Encouraging people to favor "God's law" over "the laws of man" is just asking for trouble.
KL
Hey Kurt:
You and my Great Uncle could have a good time comparing notes. He was an old Navy type who had been around the World on one of the ships of Teddy Roosevelt's "Great White Fleet" in 1907 and served in World War I and II. He once told me that religion was what man invented so he would have something to fight about if he couldn't find anything material to fight about. I was about 16 at the time and my Parents were raising me as a good "hair shirt" Methodist and I found his opinion a bit shocking. But the older I get and the more I see, the more I understand his view.
13 years working for the D.o.D. didn't help either.Bill Shuey
But you have to admit, using their beliefs against them psychologically can do wonders.
That's cheating. :P
RobG
Ron wrote
"Ron" wrote
Oh, absolutely, but as long as we remain a nation "under God", someone could play the same game with us.
KL
Oh great- We're already screaming at each other on politics, now you had to open up this can worms. Kim M
In that I case I choose to name God "Boris the Spider" for my game.....
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