We are poor little lambs, who have lost our way, bah bah ... bah ...

Well more of the brainwashing that the left has done upon the youth of our country ... started with the communists of the 30s, then the beat
nicks of the 50s ... then the hippies of the 60s, and now the college kids of the 100s ... nice, that a man like Pappy, isn't alive to see this left-winged crap of today. Instead of being a hero, he is now a "rich white guy" murderer on his Washington campus ... very sad indeed ... here is the link:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48808
BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS Students reject honor to 'Baa Baa Black Sheep' hero Member of Marines not 'sort of person UW wanted to produce'
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: February 14, 2006 1:00 a.m. Eastern
Š 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
Lt. Col. Gregory "Pappy" Boyington during World War II (Photo: National Archives) The University of Washington's student senate rejected a memorial for alumnus Gregory "Pappy" Boyington of "Black Sheep Squadron" fame amid concerns a military hero who shot down enemy planes was not the right kind of person to represent the school.
Student senator Jill Edwards, according to minutes of the student government's meeting last week, said she "didn't believe a member of the Marine Corps was an example of the sort of person UW wanted to produce."
Ashley Miller, another senator, argued "many monuments at UW already commemorate rich white men."
Senate member Karl Smith amended the resolution to eliminate a clause that said Boyington "was credited with destroying 26 enemy aircraft, tying the record for most aircraft destroyed by a pilot in American Uniform," for which he was awarded the Navy Cross.
Smith, according to the minutes, said "the resolution should commend Colonel Boyington's service, not his killing of others."
The senate's decision was reported first by Seattle radio talk-host Kirby Wilbur of KVI, whose listeners were "absolutely incensed," according to producer Matt Haver.
Brent Ludeman, president of the university's College Republicans, told WND in an e-mail the decision "reflects poorly on the university."
"Pappy Boyington went beyond the call of duty to serve and protect this country - he simply deserves better," Ludeman said. "Just last year, the university erected a memorial to diversity. Why can't we do the same for Pappy Boyington and others who have defended our country?"
The resolution points out Boyington, a student at the UW from 1930-34, served as a combat pilot in the 1st Squadron, American Volunteer Group - the "Flying Tigers of China" - and later as a Marine Corps combat pilot in charge of Marine Fighting Squadron 214, "The Black Sheep Squadron."
Along with the Navy Cross, Boyington was awarded the Medal of Honor by President Franklin D. Roosevelt for his heroism. He was shot down and spent 20 months in a Japanese prisoner-of-war camp.
The resolution says, "Be it resolved ... [t]hat we consider Col. Gregory Boyington, United States Marine Corps, to be a prime example of the excellence that this university represents and strives to impart upon its students, and, That we desire for a memorial for Col. Boyington be commenced by the University of Washington by 11 January 2008, the twentieth anniversary of his death, which will be publicly displayed, so that all who come here in future years will know that the University of Washington produced one of this country's bravest men, and that we as a community hold this fact in the highest esteem."
Commenting on the decision, a blogger who says he met Boyington on numerous occasions at a museum and air show over the years noted the famous flyer "was no rich boy," having grown up in a struggling family in which he was forced to work hard to make it through school. The blogger, who hosts the website Paradosis, also pointed out Boyington was part Sioux.
Boyington was open about his marital problems and alcohol abuse, saying notably, "Just name a hero and I'll prove he's a bum."
The blogger wondered, "have our Washington youth revised history so much as this? To compare Boyington - or for that matter any of our WW2 vets - to murderers? What are these kids being taught today? They don't deserve those 20 months Pappy spent being tortured and beaten in a Japanese prison camp ... they don't deserve any of what our grandfathers and grandmothers sacrificed to free Europe and the Pacific."
Boyington wrote a book in 1958 that reached the best-seller list, "Baa Baa, Black Sheep." In 1976, he sold rights to Universal, which aired a TV series for two seasons of the same name.
Boyington, who died Jan. 11, 1988, is buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
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snipped-for-privacy@juno.com wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to check into this a little bit more...
I keep wondering if the mouthy chick speaking against pappy was putting her way through, or was she on a scholarship.
Bob (son of a naval combat aviator)
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 09:48:08 -0500, Robert Juliano wrote:

There is updated information (actually, this story is already a couple of weeks old):
http://boortz.com/nuze/200602/02162006.html (extensive coverage about 1/3 down the page)
And regarding the young lady in question, if you wish to contact her directly: snipped-for-privacy@u.washington.edu
:o)
--

Greg Heilers
Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.2 (2.6.13)
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Greg Heilers wrote:

Greg,
Much as I'd love to correspond with her, I'd have to fight a damn-near never ending battle against sending something like this:
Dear faux-liberale whinging bitch,
It has come to my attention that you feel - in your august and greatly learned opinion - that somehow UW's standard of conduct and behavior preclude a memorial to Lt. Col. Gregory Boyington, better known as "Pappy." Lt. Col Boyington served with distinction in the United States Marines Air Corps during the second World War, driving back virulently aggressive and expansively imperialistic Japanese hegemony. During non combat operations, "Pappy" boyington showed combined mechanical, scientific, and artistic skill as a technical draftsman for Boeing Aviation.
During Combat Operations, Lt. Col Boyington demonstrated grace under fire and aerial combat proficiency in downing some 28 enemy aircraft. Lt. Col. Boyington maintained the standards of conduct and honor of the United States Of America, and of the Marine Corps, and even that of all aviators when kept in capitivity as a prisoner of war.
Now then,
1.) How does your life stack up against this short history? I am sure that action on the croquet field is vicious, and that great skill must be used in split second decisions, but I think that somehow, Pappy wins.
2.) Can you honestly say that your career (may it be short) as a student, is somehow tougher than leading men and equipment into combat? is your life tougher than organizing and maintaining said unit of men and equipment?
3.) Pappy spent quite a bit of time as a prisoner of war. Unless the are a survivor of long term sexual abuse, you have literally no possible idea of what being a POW is like. Nor do you have any standard upon which to judge Lt. Col. Boyington.
You make me deeply ashamed to know that you are an american, outraged to know that you are a college student, and grievously insulted on behalf of my fellow aviators.
I am thankful that we will never meet. I am thankful that I have completed college. I am thankful that your path through life will have little effect on the world as a whole. The only thing that troubles me, is the question of how many women in this country are as profoundly asinine as you.
Respectfully,
Robert H. Juliano Instructor, inventor, rocketeer, and pilot
......
of course... that would be a mean letter
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Well send it then damnit man!!! This little twit and all like her should be given a full pass to Iraq under command of the Marines or Army. Then they will know what they are talking about.
Dennis

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D&JWatkins wrote:

D&J,
Now now...
There is no need to be mean-spirited...
The poor little lady has pretty much guaranteed her lack of good job prospects, decent companionship, and/or any respect by the aviation/rocketry/technical community.
I'll sit on my letter for a bit... If I still feel she hasn't had enough grief by friday, off it goes.
Bob
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:52:48 -0500, Robert Juliano wrote:

I was in the process of writing her. I think you should as well, but it can be done in a "nice" way, without losing any of your passion.
Point out the sacrifices Boyington made, and that he suffered *real* torture as a POW (as opposed to having your photo made, having dogs bark at you, having to do exercises at the crack of dawn while guards yell at you, having female guards flirt with you, etc...).
Also, in response to the other young lady's "rich, white male" remark...point out that Boyington was never "rich", nor even really "white" (being of Sioux ancestry).
By the tone of the young lady's personal blog ( http://boortz.com/nuze/200602/02162006.html ) referring to Boyington as "a colonel from WWII", she suggests that she has never even heard of the man, not to mention not taking the time to learn about him.
Some have suggested that since it is "their" (the students') campus, that they should not be challenged. Point out that they are simply temporary occupants of classroom seats. If the campus "belongs" to anyone, it is the taxpayers and/or the private and public benefactors which support the university. And then point out that most of these are undoubtedly their despised "rich, white males".
And finally, point out that as students, they are *not* to considered full adults yet. They are still going through life figuratively wearing a "Trainee" badge. They have not yet *earned* the luxury of being handed a stake in big decisions, not is their judgment yet worthy of being trusted, nor taken seriously.

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Greg Heilers
Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.2 (2.6.13)
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they
Send it to her, send her to Iraq, but don't send the little idiot to the Marines. My daughter is coming home from her 3rd deployment next week and I really don't want the likes of this moron around a real Marine.
Ooh Rah!
Randy www.vernarockets.com
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On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:14:48 -0600, randyolb wrote:

What is your daughter's name? I would be proud to hang a "Welcome Home _________________" sign in window.
--

Greg Heilers
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Greg Heilers wrote:

I second that thought (even though the sign will be in a 3rd floor window, facing the woods.)
I'll also put one of the side of my shop.
Bob
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Kimberly.
Thanks for the offer but she doesn't want any special recognition, she's just doing what she is trained for and loves to do and she'd want the little idiot to be able to speak her mind even if she thought she was a complete dolt. I however... ; )
Randy www.vernarockets.com
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She's not only dissing Boyington, but all Marines everywhere!
ą
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Maybe Bob Kaplow should make some formal statement on this matter? I mean OBVIOUSLY, Pappy joined the Marines NOT to serve and defend his country, but as a way to get free room and board, a trip to the South Pacific, and 20 months in a Jap prison camp! Right Kaplow? Oh, and don't forget the college tuition that didn't exist until after the war (murders).
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Actually, I already did before I read this post.
Who are you anyway? You seem to know me from way back. Answer in private if you like.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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I remember getting the tour of Garber after NARAM-31. They showed us the corsair thay had restored. Sticklers for details, they wouldn't put "Pappy"s anme on it, because it wasn't his plane. But when he got a private tour and they showed it to him, it brought tears to his eyes. He autographed inside one of the wheel wells to the folks that did the restoration. This was shortly before he died.
You can disapprove of the military actions this country has ended up in due to bad leadership at the very top without disrespecting the men and women that serve in our military, by choice. "Pappy" was one of our heros.
When I was a LOT younger, I made the realization that the military and I were not a good match. Yet from the folks I've known from that background, I have nothing but the highest respect for the quality of leadership that they turn out. My father and most of his generation fought in WWII. In rocketry, there are folks like Trip, Chas, Matt and many others. At work the two best managers I ever worked for served on "Boomers" together. Thank you all.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

Bob, You and I don't see I to eye on many issues but here we stand united. I admit taking jabs at your statements from time to time, then you have the audacity to pen this. :) I couldn't have said it better for myself as well. Way to go 'ole chap. Hope we meet up again at a launch.
sincerely, steve bloom
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Not only do I disagree with the opinion that Pappy's monument shouldn't be built, I rather take exception with the way us subversive-pinko-commie-longhaired-hippie-marajuana addict-weirdo-sedicious-liberals are all getting lumped in together on this issue. Obviously this is an obvious myopic oversight, and/or plot, caused by them thar rich fat cat-gun toting-Republican-right wing-redneck-extremists, in non-union southern "right to work" states.
Did I cover enough cliche terms?
A momument to Pappy sets well by me. But if they ever erect one to Bush (of either generation), anywhere, I'll keep birdseed around it 7/24's so our feathered friends can do to it what I'd get arrested for trying myself. Thomas Jefferson (not Empress Hilary) in '08!
snipped-for-privacy@juno.com wrote:

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On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 09:15:45 -0500, Zathras of the Great Machine wrote:

I don't think anyone on this thread has intentionally "lumped" *all* Liberals/Leftists together. But there *is* a certain all-too-common mindset within the thought processes, of young Liberal students, at Liberal-leaning universities...a definite "herd mentality" that seeks to punish and ignore anything that is "traditional", "conservative", or any opinion that does not go out of its way to kiss-ass to its own, narrow-minded left-leaning ideals. But, remember, our remarks are targeted to these aforementioned "group members". (Yes...they are a group, operating in group mentality...the idea of individuality, and succeeding on one's own abilities, is offensive to them). There are many "Liberals" who would be offended by these students' anti-American and anti-Military remarks... but you are unlikely to find *these* decent people within the ranks of college students.
Plus, remember that the controversy is not so much about the opposition to recognizing Boyington...but for the apparent lack of self-educating of the students. Their referring to him as a "rich, white male" is the perfect example. He was neither "rich", nor really "white" (having much Native American ancestry). And Miss Edwards referring to him simply as "a colonel in WWII" seems to suggest that before this issue had arisen, she had never even heard of him, nor did she educate herself once the issue was brought up...she simply slammed him without even knowing who he was.
Now...Boyington was *no* saint. He was a self-admitted alcoholic, and by some accounts, an abusive husband. These are issues that might be brought up to keep him from being memorialized...but none of this was ever mentioned. The opposition was based solely on his being a member of the military, and a "rich, white male". (I bet the majority of the tax money, and private donations, which keep this university running...comes from these hated "rich, white males").
*That* is why the controversy is brewing.

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Greg Heilers
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Greg,
On of the things that I require (stringently so) from my students is the ability to construct a proper argument. 30% of their grade is based on their ability to take in data, evaluate said data as to their value as facts, link the facts into accepted logical chains, and be able to defend the result.
One of the problems that this country seems to be facing, is that we focus only on the college liberal group-mind, or the college republican group-mind, to the exclusion of one or the other. Also, we seem to be attempting to lump certain sets of actions into only handful of labels. The liberals seem to be having a serious schism at this point, and the conservatives seem to be heading for a 3 way loose coalition of "moderates," hegemonists, and bible as social control.
Personally, I think the whole thing is fun to watch... outside of the blast range...
Thom Jefferson and Ted Roosevelt in '08!
Greg Heilers wrote:

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On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:53:27 -0500, Robert Juliano wrote:

TR - probably the most UNDER-appreciated President we have ever had the pleasure of having serving us. ...And the *one* good reason to enjoy the movie "The Wind And The Lion"!
:o)
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