... along with 4 other CMH recipients that were UW alum.
Caught a video clip of it a while back. The students reversed course overwhelmingly. The diehard moonbats got their licks in though. One referred to those that spoke out in outrage over the derogatory remarks against Boyington as part of (roughly translated) "the quasi-fascist right wing conservatives".
Hoo-yah!
WmB
WmB wrote: : : Caught a video clip of it a while back. The students reversed course : overwhelmingly. : This is yet another example that the desire to be a politician should be the first criteria for exemption. Whether that exemption be from politics or the human race depends on how generous I feel at that instant...
Bruce
damn good news. perhaps the media scum will be forced to realise people still recognise real heros and patriots. he may have had human faults and made mistakes, but i think that's what makes real heros so amazing. rising above your own limitations to aid the cause of liberty should become an honored concept once again. perhaps the republic will not sink into it's own decay.
Where did you see the video clip, and is there a transcript available? I just did an archive search of the Seattle Times (which had been running these stories right along) and there hasn't been a peep about this reversal.
If this is true, it isn't a reversal at all; as the ASUW president said, this issue wasn't about Boyington per se, but that they wanted to have something for all UW alum CMH recipients. Which, if this is accurate, is what will happen.
--- Tontoni
i'm proud to be an american and have our history!
Gotta second what Hub said- very well put. Good job, e-man!
i'm tried of it being uncool to live on the greatest country on earth, being aware of history and having some second rate intelligences tell me my hero's don't rate respect. most of those nedia clowns were too young for vietnam, don't know the history of the europen war and much less know of the pacific campaigns. that was truly a shoestring war where guts and intelligence had to make up for material shortage and a lack of numerical superiority. i knew many of those men while they were still young and they shared stories and expiriece with me, a small boy then. i didn't know why some of them seemed nervous, acted oddly or why many of them drank too much. i didn't understand the guys who jumped at loud noises or cryed at photographs or when meeting friends missing body parts. to hear some media puke or student codemn men who kept their world safe so they could grow up as killers or war lovers makes me ill. my father bore scars inside for the 50 years he lived after the war. the asbesto he was exposed to onlanding craft killed him by cancer of the esphogus. yet he fought his way on to those barges in africa and europe because he thought it was right, his duty. i'm really sick of history being ignored and real heros insulted. i guess i'm getting old.
Salute to your father and the great men who did the right thing. And you might be old, sir, but you are not alone.
The media is fine with terrorists chopping people's heads off on TV now, but has problem with heros who fought for justice and the freedom of the same whining people half century ago. Sigh.
---snippage---
Or I've got a too-tired-on-the-web problem, more likely. Thanks for passing that on. I read both the article and finally found the video clip. I've never tried to navigate foxnews' website before.
It sounds to me that the resolution passed as the ASUW president said, for all UW Alum who have been awarded the CMH, not just Boyington.
It also sounds (trying to judge from very short fox clips) that these students were badgered and really wanted to put this away. The roll-call vote that they used records who voted for what, so there probably was a very high level of intimidation there.
Probably it was a combination of both. Regarding the memorial, that's fine. There should be one for CMH winners.
As for intimidating the students, badgering them etc, I think that is just shameful.
--- Tontoni
Free speech as long as nobody was threatened. And I doubt anyone was seriously threatened. Victim status is the first hill taken by certain groups that find themselves fighting a lost or unpopular cause - often observed in the form of unsubstantiated claims of racial, gender or physical assault. Most of the time when the cops look into it I suspect they sniff out about 95% bullshit.
My take on it is that a majority of the original dissenting 45 students voted w/o giving full consideration to the issue at hand. I was young once, hell there was a time my vote could have been had for a piece of ass... more or less. ;-)
The "vocal input" that arose from the controversial remarks a few radicals made helped shed some light on the issue for those fence post sitters on just just what sacrfices men of Boyington's caliber once made on behalf of future generations of Americans... Australians... Chinese... Koreans... even the Japanese oppressed beneath the boot of the Tojo regime.
Given the chance to reconsider more thoughtfully with full appreciation that this wasn't some forgotten piece of history, I choose to believe the students gave the matter the proper consideration it was due and made a wise and respectful decision.
Case closed. Book'em Danno.
WmB
To All:
Thank you for posting the results; it is good to hear the MOH awardees will receive deserved recognition. This is not about the legitimacy of the moon bats or fascists, nor is it about the character / combat record of Col Gregory Boyington. I think a discussion is mostly a good thing until it becomes the product of a smoke generator that eclipses the original purpose.
I have followed this group since 1995ish and have never had a shortage of these types of posts to adsorb (yes, own free will).
So a few random comments? .
The conservative drivel constantly presented here is only slightly counter balanced by "moon bat" ravings. Over all, the first casualty is the truth, which is quickly replaced by truthieness?
We like our European friends, could not resist the role of colonialist or slaver. These dividends of our history are paid daily, quite visible and cannot be wished away. Those who would exhort me to get over it, are the same that chafe at the last vestiges of the "New Deal". It is better to accept the good and the bad, adjust and move out. I fully give the Germans, Japanese, the former Soviet Union, and a plethora of others credit for their stupid while expecting no quarter.
Protestations by the "tired" folks who only wish to hear the simple and never balanced truth of our (US) history are laughable at best. While seeking to take pride in the "success" of our history, we fail to remember that history (like In-Laws) represent the good, bad and indifferent package deal where kindness is not required. Read all of the history books, not just the "Hoo AH" ones. You are forgiven if you gag on some (thinking Charles Whiting), but cheerleading / trashing is not history, nor a perspective, it is an agenda (see that clown's (name starts with a 'B") book on the (very alleged) million(s) of German prisoners we were supposed to have starved. (Hell getting through the forward of Guns, Germs and Steel was damn near impossible
The motion to call for a voice vote is quite legitimate; it is still nothing more than a tactic used on the squeamish and those who fear a traceable record. I recommend a full record of the voting to remember all who had a part in that action, so no one goes unrecognized for their effort.
Speaking of endurance, I am "tired" of the Liberal and Conservative "Drum Beaters". The former will tell me how to think, feel, etc, and the latter the same with a particularly convenient memory to boot. The real hoot is neither seems to understand the military, or its purpose. "Support our troops" is sometimes used to advance a movement leaving the troops as a symbol for a means to an end. The media is not as liberal as it is both ignorant and arrogant (a pleasant combination)?
More random whatnot:
FICA and the Law of War are binding- those who violate them need to be held accountable.
The war on terror began a long time before 9-11. The bastards ARE criminals and need to be treated as such (see below)
Spies and Saboteurs should be tried and shot (if applicable)- not tortured.
Iran needs to be wasted and not dallied with; no invasion required, I recommend regime change by incendiaries...
The military needs a free hand to accomplish its given mission in the conduct of war; no more OSD whiz kids/Neo-Con BS. G H W Bush at least did the first one right, save the ending?
As to the leaking whatnot- does OADR mean anything to anyone in this discussion?
Admiral Kimmel and General Short deserve some relief- for the very fact that PH was not previously attacked by the Japanese like the Trade Towers should say something about accountability. BTW Intel does not pop out of a 100% accurate crystal ball? Leaders must make sound decisions from the available information, not lean on the crutch of the "Red Picture". Trashing the bureaucracy that gives you the Intel isn't smart either?
Speaking of monuments, Sir Arthur Harris and GEN Lemay deserve a monument (near the UN) to remind all nations (esp. those who sponsor terror and nuclear proliferation) that total war is but a preflight and some hours away.
How about the 'liberal' media parroting industry morons who revel in how cheap my gasoline is (comparing a gallon of gas to say eye drops). Hmm- not so liberal in that instance, maybe more corporate.
The 2000-2001 western artificial energy crises (see Enron and friends) that was passed on by this administration.
The BS PowerPoint and rhetoric laced run-up to a war that was already justified by Iraqi refusal to cooperate with the UN inspection teams, and moreover, by shooting at coalition aircraft over the Northern and Southern No-Fly Zones.
The failure to secure key infrastructure and weapons dumps, which is tied to ignoring/bypassing the Fedayeen and allowing the Iraqi army to melt into the population, making plenty of IED resources available.
And that forced down EP-3E - That would have had a serious impact on the Wal-Mart pipeline if I had my way. One year for each day's delay in surrendering the aircraft and crew. Least favored nation trading status?
My $.02
Kevin McCollough, SFC USA (Ret)
What is history but a fable agreed upon? Napoleon Bonaparte
I hope the door hit the one who stormed out on the way. I can't say much for those who abstained either.
Bill Banaszak
[long, well-worded rant snipped]
You are the only other person I have ever heard suggest the war was justified on the basis of Iraqi actions toward Coalition AC.
We are to blame for the politicians we have. And we have gotten exactly the politicians we deserve.
E.P.
It was, after all, a pretty common occurance. Someone proposed a memorial, the majority voted to study the matter and the proposal, modified to incorporate more honorees, was passed. The rest is rightwing blathersphere, fed to the perpetually enraged, looking for slights in every sentence.
"We have enough monuments to old rich white guys" "I don't think a Marine is the sort of person we should be honoring"
Yeah, happens everyday.
From what I gather a vote was held and the measure to honor Boyington, et al, failed 45-45 or thereabouts. Some of the inflammatory remarks made at the time of this vote made their way into the public domain and the back pedaling began in earnest once attention was brought to bear.
Last stop for the hippy train was Tuesday when UW's current crop of disciples of the "babykiller" and spit hurling losers of the 60s were handed their asses by a better informed student electorate. The majority vote left the radicals nothing better to do than to slink and slither their way out of the meeting to sulk about it and profess they merely attempted to secure honors for all UW veterans.
Bullshit!
Some have signalled that they changed their votes or abstained because of threats. The notion being that only the threat of physical violence at the hands of brutish right wing thugs could sway them from their hign minded convictions to deny honors to "rich old white guys" and "Marines".
More bullshit!
That's patented bullshit! You may want to check to see if you owe a license fee there.
Here's the score for you in case you missed it:
Boyington: 29* Campus radicals: 0
We're done here.
WmB
*Long since passed from this world and he's still shooting down bogeys.
I do not think you could have proved his point any better.
E.P.
Not so fast...
The Idiots on the left and the right have a strangle hold on these and other issues that they neither merit on the strength of their arguments or their position in the population. One side, as it has been alluded to before, lies in wait for this type of controversy, more interested in the fight than the issue while denigrating anyone who does not sign up for the whole package.
Yes I am denigrating the moon-bats and frothing right for not sitting down and attacking the argument vice the speaker or group from whence they came. I cannot condone the wide spread trashing, but as an element of free speech, I feel compelled to support it. Democracies depend on it for their very survival. Many times in this country's history, the mere appearance of suppression of a 'right', or resistance to an "action", has brought together the opposition with less than optimal results...
The following remarks taken from the minutes of the UW senate show at least that thought is not dead on campus.
From:
VI. Chair's Report Alex Kim said he was excited to see so many people interested in Senate. He welcomed Dan Boirum, a Cadet and member of the ROTC committee. Dan Boirum said the UW has been receiving a lot of criticism it didn't deserve. He presented a letter from the military community on campus.
Student Senate,
Of the many student organizations on campus, the military community often holds a negative image. The various Reserve Officer Training Corp programs are frequently criticized by some as producing trained killers. Yet these programs are designed with considerable effort to produce leaders of integrity, courage and dedication. The individuals thats(sic) come out of ROTC are some of the brightest leaders our nation is capable of producing. They are exactly the sort of people the UW should strive to produce.
The military community does not desire parades, monuments or banners. We do our jobs not for thanks nor praise. We do our duty because we believe we serve a purpose greater than ourselves. However, we resent the fact that some members of the student government would liken us to criminals or murderers. It is true that the profession of arms is a violent one. But as a professional military, our services put an unbelievable amount of effort to accomplish the mission with as little damage and loss of life as possible. The world is still a violent place and the only thing that keeps violence off of our doorstep, is that other men and women stand ready to absorb that violence.
Soldiers are not responsible for making policy. We are assigned missions by the duly appointed civilian leadership, one not unlike the concept of the student senate. Like the American public we each have our own political opinions and beliefs. The ideas and politics of each person in uniform is as diverse as can be found anywhere on campus. Yet we all share one commonly parroted ideal; that freedom of thought and liberty are divine rights to be enjoyed by all humankind.
To this day there are millions of people who live under the weight of oppression. Few people around the world enjoy the same security, luxury and freedoms that are so openly taken for granted in our nation. Gregory Boyington and men like him literally bled to protect liberty from a growing oppressive empire. Many before him, many of his peers, and many future graduates from his Alma Mater have, and will continue to pay the price of liberty with their own blood.
So easy is it to condemn and criticize others. And so easy is it to give way to ignorance and preconceived notions. We are all guilty of it, all of us. While it is not uncommon, it is also not fair that some confuse the necessity of violence with murder or fascism. No American warrior fights solely for his appointed Commander in Chief. No American warrior fights for oil. Americans take up arms not to force their choices on others, but to give and protect the liberty of choice.
Despite all the criticism and the apparent negative feelings of all involved parties, we are PROUD to be members of the University community. The UW may not always support the military community, but we strongly support the University of Washington. The UW is and will continue to be a main center of academic achievement, as well as a diverse community of politics and ideas. We firmly support the University of Washington because great minds do not think alike. Great minds think for themselves.
With Genuine Respect,
The Military Community of the University of Washington
Alex Kim said much of the discussion across the country is more argument than discussion.
He said he thought much of the country suffers from a wound by which human beings cannot talk to each other.
He said the sort of dialogue that takes place within Senate is critical for healing and consensus in today's crossfire democracy.
He said the last two weeks have taught him how important such dialogue is.
EOM
The left and the right have some good positions and some very bad ones. As long as the left and the right fight their wars of attrition on every one's else's time, we will not move forth. It is time for the center to rise up and take the stage for a time.
Kevin McCollough, SFC USA (Ret)
What is history but a fable agreed upon? Napoleon Bonaparte
--tempest in teapot snipped--
(and pardon me for continuing this... can't leave it)
A) Keeping score? I guess that to the right, this is a game of sorts.
B) What campus radicals? (laughing out loud; really) these are elected student body senators, not demonstrators or anything like that. These are the leaders of student government, who will more than likely be future political leaders (on whatever level)
(insert non-sequitor here) The US right is far more radical than the left. The "left" in this country, as led by Clinton in his years, was much more centrist than the current ... gulp.... "leadership". Not just the disgraced and/or indicted ones either...
Anyhow, as the ASUW president said, just at the beginning of this controversy, they wanted to honor all UW CMOH recipients, not just Boyington. The perpetually-enraged right got this bone in their mouth about a few comments made by some of the senators and it turned into this.
Guess what; this memorial was probably going to happen without the national spotlight etc!!
--- Tontoni
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