Re: Flat Black again

Testors Model Master is FLAT. I've also used Humbrol and it is also flat. I have noticed, though, that you have to MIX the paint thouroughlly if not
you'll get SATIN instead of FLAT Hope this helps Jose

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I did shake it for about 5 minutes. I might also try using a stick. MM and H is not flat when I compare it with Tamiya Olive drab which I used for wheels. Also Revell enamel black is much more flat but it's a different story since it's different paint type.
No matter what the angle I look at them the wheels appear olive drab. But the black 'rubber' appears black only on certain angles. I will try using a stick for 5 minutes than shake for 5 minutes.
Thanks Maciek
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But remember.. no black is a true black. Try mixing a little red.... or even the OD in with it. Tires often have a little more gray in color. Unless brand new, then they do have a little more semi-gloss on the side of flat sheen. And this will appear different too, as you noticed, at different angles.
Mixing... I thin I saw it here or in FSM.... I picked up a 1euro coffee frother wonder toy at Ikea recently. Looks like any you might find in a sharper image (at 20 times the price). It runs on two AA batteries and has a small "whisk" at the bottom. I cut that part off leaving an L shaped hook. With both batteries I just get bubbles. But I jumped the second battery, now use only one, and it is perfect. A little less torque, but almos magic. And I don't get paint on the threads like I do from shaking.
Rich
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The Badger is like $10, is properly set for speed and the mixer is a neat little circular blade with small "blades" bent up around the circumference. It really pulls the paint off the bottom and blends it very smooth.
Really it is a "must have".
Frank
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Maciek wrote:

Mixing the paint thoroughly is important with matt paints, to get the matting agent completely mixed in and evenly distributed. It tends to clump at the bottom of the tin quite quickly. I've found that shaking on its own is often not enough.
I use a wire hook, triangular so that the bottom of the tin is well scraped, in my Minicraft 12v drill. I run this from a little variable-voltage supply and can turn it down so that it runs slowly, and is ideal for stirring paint well. It also helps me to cut plastic rather than melting it with drills, cutters and sanding drums :-)
Others have suggested putting a couple of pieces of lead shot or bb's into each paint tin, which greatly increases the effectiveness of shaking the tin. Somebody said that they taped each tin to an orbital sander and gave it five minutes vibro-massage: I would be too worried about the lid coming off.
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Others have suggested putting a couple of pieces of lead shot or bb's

BBs are good but I prefer small nuts from computer bolts. They get right into the side of the container. It's important to make sure your lid is tight; I give those infernal tinlets an extra whack with a hammer and post. A zip lock bag is extra insurace. Small electrical sanders don't seem to do the job; it's got to be a sizable one. I'm using a vibratory shell cleaner at the moment. Works great, five minutes and most paint is creamy smooth and ready for painting! I've thought about finding a way to attach them to the A-arm of my vehicle but that's too much work. hth The Keeper
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Maciek wrote:

How are you applying it- airbrush or bristle brush?
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1. I think one sometimes gets a bit more sheen with black than with other colors, perhaps because of the nature of the specific pigment used.
2. Why don't you just use some clear flat to get the black as flat as you want it? Polly Scale flat, for example, will give you a real, dead flat and can be brushed on if you don't want to change the flatness of the hub color as well.
3 FWIW, I like an off-black much better for tires. I use Polly Scale Grimy Black, which is basically a very dark gray; you could certainly mix something yourself. German RLM 66 also works well for convincing tire color.
Pip Moss

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FWIW. I have the Hobart paint shaker and the Badger battery operated stirrer. They seem gimmicky but they work great. I know Squadron has them and your LHS may have or be able to get them, too.
Frank
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Maciek wrote:

If you're looking for a good tire color from Model Master, try thier Aircraft Interior Black. A sort of dark-graphite color, just flat enough, very smooth finish when airbrushed...VERY nice convincing color for aircraft tires.
--
- Rufus

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Sorry but the combination of shaking, stirring for quite a lot of minutes, shaking again make no difference. The flatness of ModelMaster flat black is still the same. Not enough flat for me. I will now try to use flat bases you recommended - defferent than Vallejo that I have already used (Vallejo matte medium didn't help as much as I need).
Thanks, Maciek
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Maciek wrote:

How are you applying it? Brush or airbrush (or rattle can)? If airbrush, try a higher pressure. In any case, use a very dry coat. Flat black applied wet will be semi-gloss.
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Maciek wrote:

Are you willing to try enamels? I've found that Xtracolor Flat Varnish, applied with my trusty old Badger 150, gets me a very flat finish, on the occasions I have wanted it.
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I did try enamels - excellent flat I admit but I can't stand the smell. I can't imagine using them in winter.
Thanks Maciek
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If you desire to use acrylics, check out Gunze-Sangyo Flat Black #012, or Tamiya XF-1 Flat black. I experimented with these to make a sludge wash. I have a tin of humbrol, but have not opened it. I prefer enamels and have had great results with Model Master #2040 (aircraft) "Interior Black" FS37031. MM1749 "Flat Black" FS37038 looks different, reference the FS numbers. I don't know that it's accurate to say that one is "flatter" than the other. The difference is very, very subtle. FWIW, I have been using more Interior Black mm2040 and less Flat Black mm1749. As for fumes, I have a big box fan in the window above the airbrush area. I use a 2 liter plastic soda bottle loaded with rolled up paper towels and (sorry fish) aquarium charcoal. I call it my purge bottle, as I use it to spray lacquer thinner and or mineral spirits to clean the airbrush. No fumes, no bother. HTH Bruce
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