Re: P-40 Allison engines

Didn't the Q's have Merlins like the F's?
Claus
"Mark Schynert" skrev i en meddelelse news: snipped-for-privacy@news02.west.earthlink.net... XP-40Q had the -121.

Nope! The Packard-Merlins were listed as V1650s. The Q's had V1710-121s like Mark reported earlier.

PSSST! Hey, Tom! Just pick one! None of your F1 pals would ever know the difference! ;^) -- C.R. Krieger (Me either ...)

Graham White's "Allied Aircraft Piston Engines of World War II" makes no mention of a V-1710-AM as far as I can tell.
All V-1710s had a numeric dash number, and most (but not all) also had an alphanumeric manufacturer's dash number also. The alphanumeric number was of the form of a single letter which was the series (e.g. C, E, F) then a number, and optionally another letter which in almost all cases was L or R to indicate rotation direction, but in one case was a C.
Several of the listings for the CMK engine seem to describe it as a V-1710 American aircraft engine. Perhaps that's what the AM stands for .
The V-1710-85/E19 was in the series which Bell used for the P-39. Precursors in this chain were the -83/E18, -63/E6, -35/E4, and 17/E2. The difference between these different engines seems to be confined to supercharger and/or propeller gear ratios, and boost controls. The first one the -17/E2 was used n the XP-39 and had a different distributor, and a different (or perhaps no) gun synchronizer.
The V-1710-89/F17R, and it's companion V-1710-91/F17L were used in the Lockheed P-38H/J, F-5B/C/F and (in R form only) the XB-38. Precursors were the -75/F15R & -75/F15L, -51/F10R & -55/F10L, -49/F5R & -53/F5L, -27/F2R & -29/F2L. Of these the first three (last in the list above) had different carburetors.
The -39/F3R was used in the NAA F-61, Curtiss P-40D/E and XP-46, and NAA XP-51/P-51A, it was similar to the -27/F2R except for blower ratio.
The -73/F4R used on the XP-40K and P-40K was similar to the -39/F3R except for having no provisions for gun synchronizer drives, and higher takeoff ratings.
The -81/F20R used on the P-40M/N/R and P51-A was like the -73/F4R except for the supercharger gear ratio and it was equipped with automatic boost control.
The -99/F26R used on the P-40N was similar to the -81/F20R except for the engine regulator and automatic manifold pressure regulator.
The -115/F31R also used on the P-40N was similar to the -99/F26R except for a counterweighted crankshaft, a stronger accessory housing, wider gears and a different magneto and carburetor.
So between the Aires engines the -89 would be the better choice since it's an F series engine too.
Your guess is as good as mine as to what the CMK engine represents.

Dang, this thread makes me remember how sweet the old Unlimited Hydroplanes sounded as they raced on Lake Washington many years ago.
Harry Kolomyjec wrote:

Amen. I used to watch the Silver Cup on the Detroit River. I remember the sound even more than the visuals. Even on the far turn, a couple of miles from where I would watch, the engine noise was still impressively loud!
Grandpa wrote:

I have Daniel Whitney's book, Vees for Victory, about the 1710. A quick check finds no reference to an AM, but I will look more closely later.
Rick DeNatale wrote: > > > > > Oh yeah, there is nothing listed in the book as 1710 AM. > > Graham White's "Allied Aircraft Piston Engines of World War II" makes no > mention of a V-1710-AM as far as I can tell. > > All V-1710s had a numeric dash number, and most (but not all) also had an > alphanumeric manufacturer's dash number also. The alphanumeric number was > of the form of a single letter which was the series (e.g. C, E, F) then a > number, and optionally another letter which in almost all cases was L or R > to indicate rotation direction, but in one case was a C. > > Several of the listings for the CMK engine seem to describe it as a V-1710 > American aircraft engine. Perhaps that's what the AM stands for . > > >
> > >> According to various charts I've dug up on the web, neither Aire version > >> (85, 89) is suitable for any P-40. The CMK's is listed everywhere as a > >> V-1710 AM. Any thoughts on what version a "AM" is or if any of these > >> engines by these two companies are close enough externally or modifiable > >> to be suitable for a P-40D/E, K, M or N (meaning a Allison V-1710-39, -73, > >> 81, 99, 115)? > > The V-1710-85/E19 was in the series which Bell used for the > P-39. Precursors in this chain were the -83/E18, -63/E6, -35/E4, and > 17/E2. The difference between these different engines seems to be confined > to supercharger and/or propeller gear ratios, and boost controls. The > first one the -17/E2 was used n the XP-39 and had a different distributor, > and a different (or perhaps no) gun synchronizer. > > The V-1710-89/F17R, and it's companion V-1710-91/F17L were used in the > Lockheed P-38H/J, F-5B/C/F and (in R form only) the XB-38. Precursors were > the -75/F15R & -75/F15L, -51/F10R & -55/F10L, -49/F5R & -53/F5L, -27/F2R & > -29/F2L. Of these the first three (last in the list above) had different > carburetors. > > The -39/F3R was used in the NAA F-61, Curtiss P-40D/E and XP-46, and NAA > XP-51/P-51A, it was similar to the -27/F2R except for blower ratio. > > The -73/F4R used on the XP-40K and P-40K was similar to the -39/F3R except > for having no provisions for gun synchronizer drives, and higher takeoff > ratings. > > The -81/F20R used on the P-40M/N/R and P51-A was like the -73/F4R except > for the supercharger gear ratio and it was equipped with automatic boost > control. > > The -99/F26R used on the P-40N was similar to the -81/F20R except for the > engine regulator and automatic manifold pressure regulator. > > The -115/F31R also used on the P-40N was similar to the -99/F26R except > for a counterweighted crankshaft, a stronger accessory housing, wider > gears and a different magneto and carburetor. > > So between the Aires engines the -89 would be the better choice since it's > an F series engine too. > > Your guess is as good as mine as to what the CMK engine represents.

cancel that address! you're wide open for massive spam and rip-offs. !!!!!

I have the kit but have read its not very accurate.
Thanks for al of your help. Not sure what I'll do.
Tom

There are several engines by CMK, Verlinden, and Aires with a few designated for the early Mustang. I suppose if I see Engines and Things engines at Nordicon this weekend I'll make some quick comparisons between theirs that are the exact version I want and the others that are also done by the other companies. If I'm lucky the upper parts won't differ much.
I find it ironic the P51A, a very early version, shares the same spec engine with the P-40M, a very late version.
Tom

Tom, 1/49? Damn I always thought there was something not quite right about that kit ;) Chek

I would love to model the Allison engine, but cannot find any scale drawings. Anyone know of a source for drawings of the Allison V1710?

IIRC, the Smithsonian Air and Space museum has vast library of manufacturer drawings and manuals on microfinch that is available to the public. I seem to recall someone in the model industry mentioning it as a valuable source.
The AeroE department a few blocks from here might have one... They also have a ME262 engine they obtained in 1947.
Tom

The Indiana War Memorial Museum in downtown Indianapolis has the real thing (Allison has a transmission plant here that built engines during the war), but it was in rather rough shape last I saw it. (ca. 1996)