So, what's the most interesting thing you've ever found...

one i'm reasonably sure was independent, and german. the other i don't remember. there are a couple based on green i am ignoring. both are in the cavendish 70's stuff or ballentine. hmm, the ballentine might be green again.

Reply to
e
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what, not even a flat? that's what messed up the landing of the junker in the first gulf war. despite one dead engine and a swiss cheese airframe, the guy was pissed because his landing was sloppy! pilots....

Reply to
e

Now you have to make sure Green didn't base his on theirs and repeat an error.

Reply to
Ron

Al,

I used to use the old Profile aircraft series for reference, but soon realized the Star is more reliable! :-)

Art

Reply to
Art Murray

You should have posted a coffee alert with that one. ROFLMAO! :-)

Reply to
Al Superczynski

It was the message in which you stated that maximum range was relative...

You have been but you slipped that time. I don't understand why you don't simply reconfigure your newsreader so that it cites the 'From' address rather than the 'Reply to' address.

Reply to
Al Superczynski

The maximum range of the Ju 390 isn't very clear either. FWIW, there are sources independent of Green that refer to the 'almost to New York' trip, including "Das Buch der Deutschen Luftfahrttechnik," by Lange. They could of course all be in error in drawing from a faulty primary source (like a crew lying through their teeth), but there's no way to tell at this remove. What I find more interesting is that the longest range I've seen written for a Ju 290 is 3700+ miles, and the Ju 390 has been tabbed as low as 4970 miles. However, that doesn't include the possibility that the 390 in question was filled with extra tankage in the fuselage, particularly because the first prototype was being outfitted for in-flight refuelling experiments, as the tanker. Also consider that Germany was already starting to suffer from a significant fuel shortage, and that the many, many gallons of av gas this monstrosity would have required to fly 6000+ miles would be enough to operate an entire staffel of FW 190s for the best part of a week.

On balance, the flight in question seems unlikely.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

To say the least...

Reply to
Al Superczynski

Mark Schynert wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news1.west.earthlink.net:

From Ubaot.net

"The Ju-390 Two prototypes flew of a radically modified derivative, the Ju 390. The idea behind this was simple: The wing center section panels, complete with engines and landing gear, where fitted twice. The fuselage was elongated. In this was the four-engine Ju 290 was modified into the six-engine Ju 390. The Ju 390V1 was equipped as as a transport aircraft, and the Ju 390V2 as a long-distance maritime patrol aircraft.

They flew in August and October of 1943. The V2 was delivered to FAGr.5, and it demonstrated its potential by flying from Mont-de-Marsan to a point 20km from New York, and back."

Though he does acknowledge it may be false.

Weren't there flights from airfields in the Caucus region to Japan and back (with refueling obviously).

I think that given the German penchant for wonder weapons that if some in the High Command thought it might be possible to make an atomic device some method of delivery would be needed. Since the rockets had thier share of problems it seems logical that the Germans might want to see if a stripped down aircraft with mucho extra tankage could even reach the US to see if it was a viable delivery system. It would certainly appeal to the notion of German and Nazi Superiority.

Just speculating.

Reply to
Gray Ghost

In article ,

this antique seems to be lacking that.

Reply to
e

In article ,

ain't gonna happen.

Reply to
e

"Al Superczynski" wrote

What I find interesting is that there were a number of _real_ close calls that could've hosed the Allies that are never explored. For example, in the US Army Ground Forces multi-volume history/analysis of WW II they start off the manpower volume by noting that in the spring of 1945 every American army division was either already overseas or in transit. There were no more reserves, no more units training stateside. Any further demands would have required siphoning off the war production workforce leading to weapons production cuts, which would've probably begun a downward spiral. The AGF suggested that the US was either very smart in their planning or very lucky in their execution.

Stuff like that isn't as sexy as pondering the effects of the German moon-based lasers on our anti-matter refinery complexes, I guess.

KL

Reply to
Kurt Laughlin

As far as the Aleutians are concerned, the Japanese never had an operational aistrip of any sort on either Attu or Kiska--they relied solely on floatplanes,which didn't last long in the adverse conditions. Their best shot, apart from dropping bombs with sub-borne floatplanes, would have been to refuel Emily flying boats mutliple times from subs, although open ocean refueling would have been a bear, and there's not much else between Hawaii and the mainland. I think the only plane the Japanese had during the war that could have reached the continental US from the farthest-forward Japanese base was the Ki.77, maybe basing out of Paramushiru, but that was strictly a record-breaker type, with no provisions for armament. The Japanese concept of bombing the Panama canal with M6A1 Seirans off of subs was intended precisely to divert American attention, but they were never able to execute that mission.

As for the Germans, I don't know. Even early inthe war, an Fw 200 might have made it as far as Maine or even Boston, but the psychology of a one-way mission, and of throwing away a skilled crew, may simply have been all wrong for them. The B-25s were at least intended to fly on to friendly fields in the Doolittle raid; the Germans would have had no such hope.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

In fact, on record, the few bombs that reached American soil had no effect on American morale. Granted, this consisted of one flight by a Glen floatplane that dropped a couple of incendiaries in a forest, and a host of balloon bombs that came down as far east as Michigan, mostly without doing any damage, but there were some deaths in Oregon from the latter, and it didn't make a darn bit of difference to morale. Keep in mind that Americans already felt violated that Pearl Harbor had been attacked and responded with something that can only characterized as fury--a few bombs on L.A., no matter what they did, would have only reinforced the resolve.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

um, the public didn't know about the ballon campaign till after the war. the military clamped that tighter than what's his trolls ass.

Reply to
e

yeah, that real world shit is such a bummer. that must be why so many euro units were posted for the invasion of japan. and the casulty estimates for the invasion? i've read a million; 100,000 on honshu alone.

Reply to
e

I've seen the above analysis before, in the context of employing the atom bomb against the Japanese. There were real concerns about having adequate American forces on the ground to deal with fanatical Japanese resistance, based on a projection of US casualties from Okinawa.

Another interesting bit is that the Kamikaze of legend (not the poor sods in their aircraft) almost became an issue soon after the war was ended. A typhoon of spectacular strength hit Okinawa in October of 1945 (IIRC) and damaged or wrecked a number of ships. This would have been where a large part of the invasion fleet for Operation Olympic would have been staging--imagine the casualties and delays that might have caused.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

Well, not quite either. Before the war the Pentagon figured out how many combat divisions the US could raise and support, then they built that many and stopped. Unlike German practice, US divisions weren't designed to be used up and replaced with new. A battered division would be rebuilt rather than replaced. That we had no more new units to deploy doesn't mean we didn't have any more resources. Those resources were just earmarked to maintaining existing units rather than creating new ones.

I recommend 'There's a War to Be Won' for a fascinating discussion of the logistics of the US war effort.

Reply to
Shawn Wilson

that typhoon was a real bitch. it made that force useless for almost 3 months.

Reply to
e

pissah good read for a bean counter book.

Reply to
e

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