United Airlines Pension Default

You're off topic, but on target. Jerry 47

wow!

RobG

Bummer!

I seem to recall a book about the airline industry called "The Sporty Buisness".

That's why I never got close to it...EVER.

smart man...

Yeah. I've got enough friends in the airline game to know better - even in good times it's a crap-shoot, unless you're at the very top of things. Oil prices go up, load factors go down, and bap - you're on the street.

It's a wonder anyone in the industry is in it long enough to make a pension...most of the short leg domestic crews I know are coninually worried about their retirements.

...not to mention all those IOIs on airline operations I got to read while I was working at GE. On-condition maintenance...what a concept.

i quit commercial flights during the atc stike. now i drive or hitch corporate.

What 'new corporatism'? The PBGC was created by a Democratic (sic) Congress in 1974.

Um, no actually. The proposal is to allow *you* to invest a small percentage of your FICA taxes if you _choose_ to.

And the airlines' failure to shore up pensions in 1998 is Bush's fault exactly how?

Not only is it not impossible to declare bankruptcy, check the roll call - the law was passed by a huge *bipartisan* margin. In case that went over your head it means that a majority of Democrats (sic) joined their Republican colleagues in voting for it.

I got the picture about you long ago.

The only giveaway here is that UAL didn't just go bankrupt as it should have. Other airlines, notably Southwest and JetBlue, are doing just fine, thank you.

Yours? Long ago...

I doubt it.

Based on what? Your paranoia?

Only in your dreams.

The employees will get *something* for a pension, funded by the US taxpayers. UAL's pension obligations have been turned over to a federal agency (called something like the Pension Benefit Guarantee Fund) and the retirees will get reduced benefits. Meanwhile, the CEO (who has apparently been with UAL for all of about 18 months) has a GUARANTEED $4.5 million pension.

This is just the first part of a predicted flood, as other airlines and other industries get in on the fun. Wait till someone like GM decides to bail on their promises and the taxpayers get the bill. I saw a rather strange interview today, where all participants agreed that this was likely, and that it would make the S&L bailout look like chickenfeed.

I can believe this - I can can think it all comes home to roost in the

-401Ks...what better way to let the gov meter how much money is out there than by letting them determine how much of your own money you can have without getting taxed even more when you need it?..pure democrat-liberal genius.

And industry gets to shed the traditional pension in the meantime because the burden "has been shifted to the worker"...who better KEEP working.

When are the libs going to pull their heads out and realize that you can't be pro-jobs without being pro-buisness? And let go of all the chickenfeed class warfare crap...

Hmm, my cousin and her husband both worked for them (UAL). They may have to give up globe-hopping and golfing at exotic locales and live like the rest of the family.

Bill Banaszak, MFE

Who says Lancaster doesn't have influence in Washington? ;)

"Vess Irvine" wrote in news:ETuge.3823$ snipped-for-privacy@fe04.lga:

Commie f****it.

Yeah, I do. Sorry. :(

Besides, I'll never see his lame response (if he responds) unless someone else quotes him.

He's probably one of the dim bulbs that thinks Skerry actually won.

Unfortunately he doesn't need any encouragement aside from his fertile and somewhat addled mind...

Aawww, C'mon Ghosty! Tell us what you really think! :-)

Bill Shuey (who kill filed V a long time ago)

SMACK! Killfile it, don't feed it.

If it happens again you have to raid your stash and send everyone on rms a kit...;)

That's the only way I see him or Az.

Probably but that doesn't negate his promise either.

We know he's addled, does he really have "fertilizer" in his head too?

I am not a big fan of "W" , but I am sure he had little to do with United Airlines poor management. Employees will get a few pennies on the dollar from the alternative plan. As far as 10% of FICA going into personal accounts, no one ever said you had to buy into the stock market with the funds. Even if you put it all in bonds you will beat by triple what the Feds are paying out.

We don't need any more bleeding heart "Dems" in office who know how to spend our money better than we do. We need lower taxes and far less government spending on pork and regulations.. Just look at the fine senator from West Virginia Robert Byrd. He is a poster child for pork and big spending that Dems are famous for.

You know, this is interesting, not quite the type of post I would have expected to see on this group. But what the hey. I'm not going to get into the politcs of what's been discussed before, but let me just add a few notes to what's cropped up so far.

Most of us who are in this industry do it because we love aviation and love to fly. It comes from that childhood interest in flying, in airplanes, and when we discovered we could do it for a living, decided that's what we wanted to do. Many people, as has been pointed out here already, would probably balk at such a job. One that requires a person to be away from home for so many days a month (I average about 17 days a month away now); requires many years of training, money, and experience before you can even try to apply to an airline; and requires you to re-test for your job every year (re-current checkrides). And yes, it is a very volatile and unforgiving industry. Just ask anyone who was with TWA, Eastern, or Pan Am for 25 years.

Pensions are important concerns for airline pilots because we HAVE to retire at age 60. There isn't any option of working for a few additional years to feather the nest. And flight engineer positions are practically gone, so we can't move into that seat after 60 either. Salaries are based entirely on years of seniority; you may have been flying for thirty years, but get furloughed and move to a new company, and you start at the bottom all over again.

And let me somehow bring my post onto topic here...hmm. I've been away from home for about a week, and the whole time I couldn't wait to get home and finish that Panzer IV that's been sitting on my table for a looong time. I decided to finally try pastel chalks for weathering (since the washes just weren't coming out right), and wow! I'm hooked. And I was also thinking about what kit is going to be next; I've narrowed it down to a 1/35 Stug III, or a 1/72 B-47. Those of you who can come home every night and work on your models, consider yourself lucky. You don't know how difficult it is to work on a project when you're gone for 3-4 days at a time. ;)

-Eric

btw, yes I am an airline pilot.