SP2, PDF and other issues being discussed

Matt -- I'll happily accept whatever "heat" you have to offer. ;-) Yes, I'd be very happy to meetcha and I'd certainly make an extra effort to get to a meeting if I know you're gonna be there.

My "neck of the woods" is likely to be either the NCPSUG (North Carolina Piedmont SolidWorks User Group) that meets in Concord, NC (I'm the VP, but that's a joke as I haven't been to a meeting in a while now) or the CSWUG (Charlotte SolidWorks User Group) that meets just a couple of exits down the interstate from me. If it's the RTPSWUG (Research Triangle Park SolidWorks User Group) I'll probably miss it . . . they meet about 2 1/2 hours away from me.

Best regards, Marky

matt wrote:

I do these things for fun, no heat will be offered. :o)

I think it is the Piedmont group. The request came from Todd Anderson. I had the date wrong, it should be Feb 19th. I was at the other group near Mechlinburg last month.

Topic is "Swoopy Shapes". I'll try to have all new material for this, since some of the stuff I've been showing is getting a little threadbare.

Anyway, see you then.

matt

Sporkman wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@bigfootDOT.com:

Must be a new technical term matt. We had a potential new client call us last week about doing "swoopy stuff" in SW. I said of course, we're expects at "swoopy stuff" and then sampled him a bunch of "swoopy stuff" jpgs. Not sure how the term started but it's pretty accurate I guess. Lofting and sweeping sounds so antiseptic anyway.

:)

- Eddy

Joe,

Thanks for being straightforward. We need more of that around here, though I have a feeling you may have your hands tied as far as how much you can participate. I don't think that you will be flamed here as long as you are blunt an honest. We want to feel valued, we want to be heard and we would like a reasonable response.

problem I have is that this "straightforwardness" and "honesty" comes too late. And only after everyone has been complaining about SW quality and, apparently, outright lies.

I really do appreciate the input, Joe, but I do feel it is too little, too late, and is merely an attempt at damage control.

What could have/should have happened:

-Sp2.0 is released.

-SW pulls SP2.0, claiming they (or users rather) discovered some additional problems not discovered during internal testing. (Note how no specific reason is given.)

-We all complain and make fun of SW for a few days.

-SP2.1 comes out. Hopefully, it is a good SP, and everyone starts using it. All rants, flames, etc about SP2.0 eventually disappear into the background.

-General level of discontent remains about where it was before SP2.0 was released.

Unfortunately, SW had to go ahead and make up a lie about pdf-printing.

This direct--and confirmed--lie will haunt you FAR longer than the pulling of SP2.0 for 2.1 ever will.

-nick e.

I wont make any apology for my comment Ed. I find matt just about as annoying as a circling house fly.

you could get together sometime and congratulate each other about your superior faculties and sound judgement....

re SW I don't really care about how long they work or dedicated they are -results are what matter.this quality problem has gone on far too long and they always get away with it aided and abetted by the honey dew matt propagates.nice guys,hard working,caring etc. etc. as an independent (sounding like Paul here) I simply do not have time to piss around hunting down bugs, hounding VAR asses as you put it ,redoing every sp and reminding myself how it is all getting better next year....I don't know if you understand that working in a larger business? What is wrong with an organisation where only the big stuff gets 'pushed' upstream? just how big does it have to be before someone gets off their chair ,sticks his hand in the air and says the buck stops here. I take responsibility and I will make a statement for the company admitting there is a problem and apologising for its repercussions.I will fix this management problem. Hey its called accountability, it calls for personal integrity and spine. I will even go so far as to say that if the people who are in decision making roles cant do better than this they should step down.

All in all it doesn't matter though Ed cause I am disappearing from here as I said, you can all go back to the stale group think slumber where no waves get pushed..and humour rarely happens cause it just isn't pc and professional. in the words of The Prairie Home Companion radio show... all the women are good looking and the children are above average... its a pity SW hasn't done what counts....and if you had your gentlemanly way we'll all still be waiting years and years and years.. long after customers commitment has dried up and gone elsewhere cheers thanks for your curvy stuff tutorials too Ed -forgot to mention you in my thankyous a few days ago. : )

I could not pass this opportunity up. When a real SWX individual is willing to address the masses, I feel I have to offer my oppinion. Sorry if this is a bit of a venting.

Our company has used SWX since 98+, since then there have been some good releases but in the recent past I would say that we are not getting our maintenance dollars worth. Each new release seems to have more junk and less stability. I work in an engineering postion and routinely visit customers to see their work practices and interview them about our products and our competitors. We gather this info to make better products, I feel like SWX does some of this but when a new release comes out (especially lately) it seems like all the available information is neglected.

I monitor this group before I decide to make an upgrade at our company. When it looks like a release or SP has very little negative feed back we upgrade. With the last two releases this was months!!! It only requires a little subjective tour of this new group to establish some basic goals for each release. Stability and Speed. If new functionality affects either of these negatively the new stuff should be dropped. Its been my experience that 80% of new stuff SWX has come up with it makes cool demos but is rarely used.

It seems like all the new functionality that is supposed to increase productivity really ends up hurting because of stablity and overall speed issues, and that in reality is more of a nusiance to use.

I am not privy to your marketing strategies or approaches, but I do see and use the end product. It has not been getting better, just more bloated. I would suggest developing a bench mark that focuses on core functionallity with out the trinkety junk used to artificially claim speed improvements (like rapid draft or lightweight) Use that to measure speed and stability changes. If anything reduces the core speed and stability forget it. I have seen several folk on this group throw out their own benchmark speed numbers and it seems that there is more than a hint of evidence showing a gradual loss of speed with each release.

Two more things. User don't use solidworks for fun. We create new products, support manufacuturing, and make a living and feed our families with what we do. Solidworks is only a tool to use to do these things. Each release in the last several years has seemed to cost us more in productivity to use. That is something to consider.

Some time ago a thread cirulated about having a maintenance fee boycot. I would not advocate that at this time but if each release continues on this path, I would not consider just a boycot myself but just like we dropped Pro-E because of these same types of issues I would consider other packages.

Once again sorry for the venting but I think you need to hear more about what happens in industry.

I don't want to stretch this out, but... there are a couple of misunderstandings that deserve a hearing.

The problem is that there are a lot of people in that stream. I love that line from despair.com - 'Teamwork - none of us is as stupid as all of us'. If any of the folks in the process makes a mistake, an important issue can stagnate. The number one thing to remember in this, as in all processes, is that humans are involved, with all of the good and bad things that go along with that.

It takes me about 30 seconds to send an issue back to my VAR and say 'I am not satisfied with that answer'. When I submit something, they verify, then take the issue and push it upstream, and get a response. Sometimes, because there is a human on the other end, the response is lacking. I do not know or care who's fault it is... all I know is it is worth my 30 seconds to get them to spend the 30 minutes to revisit my problems because it might save me

30 hours over the next few years (Ok, 30 hours is probably an exageration, but you gotta love the rhythm of that sentence). It sucks to take time away from the job, but 30 seconds is minor when I am looking at hours or days of lost productivity if I do not.

I have not found a lack of folks at SWx raising their hands and saying the buck stops here. In my expereince, they take responsibility, from McEleney on down. Of course, I go through channels, so I am easier for them to listen to. I can sit back and listen to a lot of criticism of SWx, because they have earned a lot of criticism. Just not this one - I have personally witnessed too much acceptance of blame and taking responsibility to fix things (and, actually, doing stuff instead of just talking about it) to not take 30 seconds to make the record straight. Of course, accpeting blame is not the same as fixing things forever so no more problems arise. There is a LOT of work that needs to be done. But there is not a culture of blame shifting over there.

I take

If they make bad decisions year in and year out, of course they should go.

Glad they helped. Good luck with everything. Certainly, no hard feelings. I know what it is like to be frustrated.

Ed,

Wow, you didn't need to say that and expose yourself to all this. Thanks, though. I definitely feel that I have taken more from you than given when it comes to information that you can't get anywhere else. Thanks for being a resource.

matt

Wally: "I'm gonna go code myself a minivan!"

-nick e.

you're not counting the 30 minutes plus for submitting the bug to begin with: Write the email, detailing steps; save-as, compress, and attach files (or ftp to VAR); add to your ever growing database of SW bugs. It takes quite a while to submit a bug. Not a trivial amount of time.

Point: Sp2.0 was pulled because of PDF printing.

"Now, where's that buck gone to..."

--nick e.

"Edward T Eaton" ...

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That ol' tricky "Send" button can really bite ya in the butt sometimes, eh?

8^)

'Sporky'

Ignore my last post, I hit send by mistake!

Anyhoo, I worry about these kinds of scenarios because it promotes the 'squeaky wheel' attitude that the louder you scream and complain, the faster your bugs will get fixed, hence some of the posts here.

What I've always been interested in is what particular order SPR's get addressed and if the process favors bigger customers, bigger complainers, better VAR's, VAR favorites, favorite customers, favorite individuals etc.

I shouldn't have to perform a trick to be moved up a list. Especially when it's a black list ;^)

Mike Wilson

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That's OK, our posts aren't very official either ;^) and our views are definitely personal.

Like this one... We are the customers, and the customers are always right.

Hopefully any official statement from SolidWorks or VARs will reflect this "fact".

Mike Wilson

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Since SW is a software company, one would assume that they follow the standard operating procedure:

Severity of the bug is the primary factor. Once sorted into severity piles, the bugs that will have the largest PR impact or can be used as ammunition by competitors are addressed first.

Next are bugs submitted by the largest paying customers.

The only exceptions are bugs that cannot be fixed in the time required before the next release.

Only a show stopper bug will delay release.

Jim S.

Jim S.

Trust me. I know what I'm drinking!

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English tea and scones can damage your brain cells, man! 8^)

..

"Mike J. Wils>