state of the SW universe?

Neil: "Now the first thought that came to me about this is that no-one is getting into SW08"

In recent times, I have noticed a flurry of requests from my customers of SolidWorks add-ins for updated add-ins compatible with SolidWorks

2008. This leads me to believe that people have started adopting SW 2008 in respectable numbers. Maybe they were waiting for a few SP's to be released. I know that my customers may not be an accurate sample of the entire SW customer base, but they may give some indication to a trend.

Is anyone hearing otherwise?

Deelip Menezes

Sincere Greetings,

In our group, some 100 or so seats, only a few are sampling 2008 and the conclusion is not to upgrade. There's nothing in 08 to justify disrupting our operation of networked

07 installs. If it ain't broke why fix it? The yearly subscription fee is paid, but if 09 isn't a marvel, you can be sure next year we will cut the number of subscribed seats to about half that, that decision has been. This is fact for our use of Solidworks.

CC

CC: "There's nothing in 08 to justify disrupting our operation of networked 07 installs."

Yes, I have heard this argument over and over again. And it is a perfectly valid one. I belive one year is too less a time to:

1) Fix old bugs 2) Create new features 3) Test the new features

I believe the item on the list above that gets the least amount of time is (3) when it should actually get the most. This results in whole new set of bugs for the next year which goes to compound the problem.

And this phenomenon is not restricted only to SolidWorks.

Deelip Menezes

what is the reason(s) most of the group arent upgrading then? UI borked? admin and bug fatigue? little or nothing attractive about the new stuff? other CAD looks better? tight budget? bad press?..

I admit from the little info I have seen of 09 features it doesnt seem very exciting but you live in hope the performance gain is real. I would really like to see some 'simple' practical improvements like for instance adding conics rather than still more 'it draws itself' stuff. I guess a lot of folks are waiting to see if the new CEO will really deliver the redirection customers have talked about for a long time to no effect.

thanks for your reply

Neil

Neil: "what is the reason(s) most of the group arent upgrading then? UI borked? admin and bug fatigue? little or nothing attractive about the new stuff? other CAD looks better? tight budget? bad press?.."

I think the number one reason is quite simply that they done see a good enough reason to upgrade. Basically, the new stuff in the new version is something that they very well can do without.

It may interest you to know that at SYCODE, we sell add-ins to customers who are still using SolidWorks 2001 and are quite happy with it. We have a policy of supporting versions as early as is technically possible and economically feasible. For example, we develop and support plug-ins for AutoCAD 2000 onwards. And I am not talking about maintaining old products. A brand new AutoCAD plug-in that we launch will work with AutoCAD 2000. Same goes for SolidWorks 2001.

Now you may ask why do we go to these extra pains of supporting legacy versions. Well, I believe that every customer is important. Just because he uses (and is quite happy with) an older version of the software it doesn't mean that we close the doors on him. And by the way, most our plug-ins are sold to users who are not using the latest version of the software available. They are one or two versions below.

My point is, some people are quite happy driving their tried and tested 5 year old car simply because they need to get from point A to point B. Not everybody needs the latest model, especially if the latest model is known to break down after every 10 miles.

Deelip Menezes

Well its nice to hear you support as many users as possible. Possibly being a 3rd party company you have a different situation to SW themselves who need to keep dazzling us with new stuff on the great capitalist mission to bring SW to every engineers desktop...

Traditionally SW users have ended up being dragged forward by other businesses early adoption of the latest and greatest. Perhaps this cycle has been broken at this point.

I wonder if this is indicative of people bypassing the struggle and only adopting sp5 for a whole year (my preferred strategy as a solo designer) or whether people are completely turned off the upgrade game all together?

Seems to me too there isnt much new about the broken nature of CAD either. I have complained a lot about this here and there in the past and there was a lot of indifference and even pretence or fanboyism that it wasnt an issue.

I wonder why this suddenly is an issue for a significant number of people? Pity there dont seem to be many users here these days to share their opinions.

Neil

SP4 EV is out so in a couple weeks it will be at that level which might mean stable.

I can't say I've done a lot of surfacing with it so I don't know about stability there.

There was a discussion about the cost of coming back on subscription a weel or so ago. I won't rehash that.

TOP

ok thanks Top, so looks like you and Bo are the only old inhabitants left here then? shame to see this place die...

ok so nothing in the SW universe has changed..

except perhaps it might all suck down into a black hole generated by their own careless lab experiments - meanwhile the remaining folks and the reluctant will pedal faster to keep the engine going fast enough to offset the pull...

later :)

I moved from Inventor 11 to SW 2008 and I love it. It was more affordable and is quite a bit better and easier to use for so many reasons. Using sp 2.1 have had very little issues with crashing. No big models but have done some complex surfaces like surfboards and canoes with all spline curves, no problems.

It all depends on perspective. Truthfully though, for it's niche I don't think there's anything better.

I agree with most of your points though, the 1 year release plan is ludicrous, it takes at least 3 to bring substantial new function without bugs. Just look at MS, like ME and Vista, the in between releases are crap.

It's the American corporate model, it's for the benefit of CEO's and shareholders not the employees or customers.

They will get you though, one way or another, you might as well upgrade when you get the offered discounts. Without backwards compatibility you're going to be stuck at some point or another, it's inevitable.

you 2 guys are getting lonely here I can tell

is that you in the video cliff? I kept thinking it might end in an explosion you know... btw I see you will have 125,000 posts coming up soon- any thoughts of retiring from retirement?

jon what else is happening out there in the CAD world? you know more scoop news and marketing bullshit than anyone else.. must be other stuff happening everyone should know about other than simple seimens rubber modelling extravaganza...

seriously though your blog is up there with matts for content minus the fishing pictures ;)

be good to each other ya here ;)

I do admit to watching a number of the canned demos by SolidWorks @ MD&M Anaheim, and then going through private demos with the guys on individual machines. What I saw "drawn" for answering my own questions and other users who came up with their own requests was created quickly & done quite well. I did not see SolidWorks freeze or quit in any of the machines at the booth, nor did I see long saves on assemblies or other slow operations. Of course the canned demos with lots of parts were well rehearsed no doubt, and were chosen to be assemblies that would demo speedily, or you couldn't get through a demo in 20 minutes.

If I upgrade, what I do know is that I will have to spend a considerable amount of time learning both the new features and new interface system.

Given my "legacy drawings", I will probably upgrade, as one of my toolmakers has already done so, but the question is at which Surface Pack.

I've mentioned many times, that I think adding features & UI redesigns is something that is proceeding too fast, but now SolidWorks is a part of a public company, and the literal demands for quarterly profits means the bean counters often set the pace, and that not only goes for features, but how much gets spent on development.

I think Upgrades should wind up coming out every 24 months, and I would be willing to pay the same maintenance fee. Why? That sounds crazy. #1 is that I would only have a major new install and learning session once every two years. Oh, wait, that is already what I'm doing. Geesh. I suspect the marketing guys (CEO) already know this.

Cost of a CAD Station:

1. Hardware (so-so cost)
2. Basic CAD package upgrades (k/yr)
3. Mold Flow & other add-on updates
4. Install, Frustration/Replacement of broken windows (pun & reality), redoing designs to fix them & Training time/classes (100 hours guess =3D k+)

The first person, in my estimation, who REALLY understood the reason for user dissatisfaction with PC computing was Steve Jobs. Next & then at Steves return to Apple resulted in the OS, programming tools, User Interface, stock free utilities & features, and logical consistent feature implementation that has tapped into people's minds as a way to reduce user frustration of spending endless days on fixes and reinstalls.

Item #4 above is where most of my "cost" goes on yearly upgrades. I'll bet it is similar for other users. Given that, I see it as SolidWorks imperitive to do everything possible to cut the cost-time part of #4 to the bone, by doing better programming & UI design, whatever it takes.

And for gosh sakes, have "Plan #2" in case Windows continues to go downhill over the next 2-3 years. Unfortunately, SolidWorks seems to be joined like Siamese twins to Ballmer (what a horrible thought- reality).

I do NOT trust Ballmer to pull Microsoft out, and think Gates faded a long time ago (becoming famous for having become rich and then overly- famous for predicting the future in glowing terms, which doesn't every seem to happen, which everyone seems to ignore once the next prediction of the future comes out of Bills mouth).

Bo

Au contraire. -- You bring up something outside the context of the existing discussion which is fixed for a period of time on SWks whether I like it or not. 7000 solids files means I do not want to move them all to a new system as there is a BIG COST to doing that.

Hence, if & when I move to another CAD system, I would pick my time & place to make a major move, so I did it efficiently.

The 5 letter word used to describe me is more a reflection of the original poster's mind than anything else I could possibly add.

Bo

Bo and I are not the only ones left. You will find Ed here from time to time and of course Paul Salvador still posts quite a bit. Bob Zee seems to have left the planet, but I could be wrong. There are a lot of lurkers who I wished posted more. There are two ways to increase the signal to noise ratio. One is to eliminate the noise and the other is to increase the signal. Being an old shortwave afficianado, picking a signal out of noise is a habit I am long used to. But it would be nice to see more signal come on line as there are still a lot of people who come here looking for answers. And answers are still to be found by searching the group.

TOP

My attention was drawn to this group after a Google Alets let me know that my name appeared here. I have been watching this group for a few days now and competely agree with TOP that the signal to noise ratio is way too low.

I also agree that adding signal is one way of increasing the ratio. But I think a concsoius effort to not add to noise will help as well.

Deelip Menezes

Deelip,

I think SWW should be held in Goa some time. Of course you would never get everyone off the beach.

You have some interesting addins for SW.

I liked your blog on pirated software. You have some guts to go into a back alley with a stranger in Bombay. :)

TOP

re: signal to noise

Folks need to stop repeating the noise.

We have switched and I really like SW2008. I like the interface and the new features. I know the chatter is that the interface sucks - how do I make it look like the old one. I disagree.

Now, that being said, let me elaborate.

1. I encourage people here to leave the menus not pinned out. By pinning them, it's too easy to fall into the same old habits of clicking there rather than the faster methods. The combination of the flyouts and the S hotkey bar makes going to the menus a thing of only a few times per day. The new interface saves mouse travel & clicks. Yes, there are some changes I would like to see, but overall it has made me faster.

1. Features I REALLY like are Copy with Mates, Balloons in drawing notes, Hole alignment check, FeatureTree filter, Center sketch rectangle, PropertyManager inside a part file, Configure dimension, Typing info into the BOM and having it write back into the file without having to open the file.

My opinion is that the biggest resistence to SW2008 is that it's different, and to be successful with the new interface, you have to decide that you are going to learn it to realize the benefits. Do the new features improve our workflow? Yes. Does the new interface make me faster? Yes. Is it as stable as past versions? For us and how we use it, I have to say yes it is. So overall it's a winner here.

WT

have they fixed the mirrored subassemblies function yet? back in about sw2000 or so, this assembly feature seemed to be able to produce a mirrored subassy with mating (never worked at all).

Bill

A similar thing happened in '04. There was a lot of very vocal resistance to the interface changes, even though they were in fact helpful. 08 isn't perfect, but the changes are positive overall. The negative opinions are easy to find because these people are upset. Not that there aren't legitimate complaints, it's just that contented users have little to say.

We're stuck on 07 because of pressure from a customer who only seems to upgrade semi-annually. Very frustrating to use the less effective tool for a customer who really doesn't need more than a parasolid model, and accepts them from other vendors. But this is just yet another possible cause of slow uptake, including critical add-ons that aren't compatible yet. Over on SW hosted forums, 08 seems to have pretty good traction.