Toolbox Lameness

I use Toolbox with 'Always Create Copy'. And i have used 'Add my Parts wizard' to create new parts that create copies. Exactly what is the "edit toolbox definition" you are refering to?

Aaron

Art Woodbury wrote:

It doesn't behave the way YOU expect it to so it's lame? When redefining the toolbox definition it's creating a config within the same part you started with, the copy. It's not inserting the master part file. This shouldn't be a problem, the file is still a copy of the master, so what if it has configs?

In this case create the new configuration and delete the old one. It is a pet peeve.

Yes, it's lame, to answer your question. The problem comes in sharing parts. If someone else on another system makes a part with the "copy parts" setting, it should have the same name and same dimensions. That's why people avoid using configurations in the first place, because one person's part will have configs that another persons doesn't. If you start adding configurations to an otherwise unconfigured part (saved with a filename reflecting the size), then you have different sizes and a name that doesn't reflect what the part really is. Totally FUBAR. The problem is that you tell it NOT to use configs, but it still does.

It's ok if you don't share your data with anyone or expect filenames to make sense.

Matt

You'e right, it is creating a config of the copied part, not of the master as I said. My point is that I don't want configurations in purchased parts *ever*. It's an invitation to disaster if someone downstream changes a part config. What's worse, if you edit the Toolbox definition and accept the new config, you get a part with the same name and a new config. So, if I have an M6x20SHCS and want to make it 25mm long, I get 25mm long capscrew whose name is M6x20SHCS!

Thanks, Paul. Deleting the old config is straightforward, but, as I replied to rockstarwally, the part name doesn't change and needs to be edited.

I was looking for a simpler way to resize Toolbox components in an assembly. But with copied parts I think the only solution is to create a dummy assembly, drag the "new" Toolbox part into it, save it, go back to the original assembly and do a replace components on the "old" part. There oughtta be a better way....mumble, grumble.

Art

That's not the case at all Matt. If you need to select your assembly and all of it's children you just include the copied part like you would any other part or sub. I really don't see what the problem is. I've been using SolidWorks for years and the only problem with sharing toolbox files really comes up when using the master file.

If you're sharing files with another network just bundle up all of your files and send them over, no prob. If you're sharing files on one network just make sure you all map your toolbox to a network directory.

If you're on a network sharing files but mapping to a local folder for toolbox you're doing it wrong.

The configs are no problem but you're right, the lack of name change can pose a problem. It is irritating when the feature tree shows a part that's a 1/2 inch and it's really 3/4 for example.

Is doing a replace part process actually easier than just living with the limitation?

Another thing to consider is that if you need to have fasteners in your assembly try to save it till the end, then you won't have to change them quite as often.

Unless of course you're not doing that. Let's say that you're on the same network with someone and you have local Toolbox installations. You wouldn't copy your files, and they wouldn't see your version.

There are lots of reasons for doing a local Toolbox, mainly being performance. Network toolbox is a total hog, especially if you have any custom standards. Opening a 50-70 Mb database across the network isn't fast.

Even if you have a network Toolbox, let's say that your admin has already created all the sizes your company uses, and has made them read only. What then?

Or lets say you use some sort of PDM.

There are a lot of valid scenarios that cause Toolbox to become a blunt object even in the hands of someone who understand its foibles.

Matt

You can complain that SolidWorks doesn't work the way you wish it would or you can work within it's limitations. It has limitations just like any other software and I used to be right in there bashing it until I realized that by modifying how I go about using it instead of simply expecting it to work to match my needs perfectly I get a lot more out of it and spend less time frustrated. The problems people complain about are really implementation problems. If you have multiple users on a network and you're using local toolboxes that's an incorrect implementation. Don't sit there complaining about something because you're not using it correctly. Yes a 70Mb database will be a hog. Use PDM. For crying out loud it's included in SolidWorks Pro! I don't see the problem with PDM, haven't experienced one yet.

So what if the Admin made all the sizes you use? I guess they're all there then aren't they? Just do a replace instead of redefine.

You of all people should know that it's a heck of a lot easier to work with your tools instead of against them. Is it reasonable to expect SolidWorks to do everything just right for everybody?

I think you might get a chuckle out of your post if you knew who I am. Not that I'm anyone important, but just that for the last few years I have made a living doing SolidWorks, Toolbox and PDMWorks implementations, and have seen many of the different things that go wrong with toolbox. I'm the guy the local reseller calls for help when their customers get themselves into a Toolbox nightmare. It's literally a weekly thing that a company has some emergency due to the "huge screws" fungus that grows on Toolbox parts. I love toolbox so much, I have a few documents on my website dedicated to that lovely product.

My implementation advice to companies is typically to either use Toolbox to make parts and then turn it off, or to buy or make their own libraries. They usually come to this decision on their own as I am describing how to make Toolbox work correctly in their particular work environment, and the potential problems they could have (none of which is provided with the SW documentation, and is especially lacking for new users).

I had the opportunity to sit with the Toolbox product manager and a product definition specialist for a couple hours to talk about the future of the product. They agreed that configurations as currently implemented are really a disaster. I think my phrase was "even if you were malicious about it, you couldn't come up with worse default settings". It's possible that in a future release TB will be completely gutted and redone.

Is it possible to make Toolbox work correctly? Yes. The one way I can guarantee TB will work well is for you to unplug your computer from any network and don't share your files. Regardless of what implementation scenario you select, there is a conceivable problem with Toolbox getting your hardware wrong. Even with PDM.

Why are there such problems with a LIBRARY? The answer is because it's not a library, it's a configurator program. A library is a semi-static collection of existing parts, not a build-as-you-go time bomb. If it were a library, the only problem would be wrong sizes or names, but because it's a program, not a library, the problems are really unlimited. Each release they find new, complex, inventive ways to resolve previous difficulties, and usually in the mean time create new and unexpected problems. There are layers of settings in TB that most people - most ADMINS - don't have any clue about.

Anyway, thanks for the lecture.

Matt

I know who you are Matt it's just not important to me. I'm saying that these kinds of complaints are pointless. If it's really a big deal submit an enhancement request, that's all you can do.

Live with the limitations and you'll keep your sanity. Find ways to implement the software the way it is and you'll get your work done. Try to force the software to work another way and complain about this and that and you'll get nothing done and just feel angry.

I had problems with Toolbox a few years ago but by using the network folder and making copies I haven't had any problems. So what if it's a configurator? So what if it doesn't work just the way you wished it does. Why is the sky blue? I don't know or care. Maybe you'd prefer a nice tangello colour, but in the end you've got a blue sky so live with it.

Not everyone is so fatalistic about things. I participated in the process of redefining a new incarnation of Toolbox, which means that bending over and taking it is not *all* that we can do. The first step in fixing problems is to recognize they exist.

Don't lose sight that you have the option to use it or not. If it causes more trouble than another solution, there is no "til death do us part" clause in the EULA.

When it comes to Toolbox, I'm not concerned about anything other than the stability of the data. By that I mean that the size screw I put in today will be the same when someone in manufacturing opens it or someone across the globe. This is not a cosmetic concern.

New users by default get the worst settings imaginable unless you work completely isolated from other Toolbox users. New users come here often for advice. Telling them to just "live with it" is not likely the best advice that they could be given, in my opinion.

Since when am I a fatalist? It's realism buddy. Work with the tools you have instead of wishing.

I don't tell them to just live with it. I'm telling you to live with it becaue you have your head rammed into the sand so hard that you're clearly not interested in doing anything except complain.

I already stated how I feel it should be implemented properly. Your response was to whine that that's not how you want to do it. There's nothing more that can be said to you if all you want to do is whine. I've got two little boys, I hear enough whining without having to hear so called professionals do it too.

When I say live with it I'm not saying live with out of the box settings, I'm saying configure it to work properly for your application.

The TB setup is obviously setup by default for stand-alone licences. If it was optimized for a network the stand-alone clients would complain.

And you're right, EULA doesn't bind you to anything. You're free to switch to IV or ProE or whatever else if you really feel that will fix all of your problems. Then we'll just see you on the IV group bitching about something else.

You almost need a macro that can cleanup the part and save it with the appropriate name when done finding the right length. After a while you will have all the toolbox parts copied and won't need to worry about this.

tsk, tsk....come on guys be nice to each other... or your uncle neil will make you do 50 press-ups...

Yes please-- I want one.

If you're in the mood to write macros, it would be ideal to have one that goes through the toolbox.mdb file and makes all the parts, either with configs or as copy parts. This would solve many TB issues for anyone who uses it. Then you just disable the interface and move the parts to a library folder. You forego some things like Smart Fasteners and the Edit Toolbox Definition, but you gain a lot more, like the ability to use a spreadsheet to populate custom properties like part numbers and descriptions.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I was getting worked up.