Not that I've ever seen. Some folks have made EP-4's and EF-3's out of
GG-1 drives, but a Flatbottom? Nope, haven't seen an article for that. The
NHRHTA had articles about turning the Lionel electric (yes, HO) into a
proper EF-4, turning an FP7 into an FL9, and even cutting up an H24-66 into
an H16-44, but nothing to do with EP-3's.
It's probably impossible, but I would think about the BLI GG-1 as a
starting point if only because it's so much nicer than that AHM/IHC piece of
junk. I have one of these AHM junkers, and the universal joints are
springs(!). Not to mention the giant flanges, etc. Ick.
FYI: Try asking on the NHRHTA's New Haven Forum at www.nhrhta.org
Paul A. Cutler III
Weather Or No Go New Haven
Thanks, I'll try the NHRHTA site.
I have an IHC 'Premier' GG-1 that I may use for this project. As
you mention, the drive is some what better than the old AHM
chassis. I was really looking to use a chassis I've already got
on hand for this project. And the link 'Big Rich' provided has
some good info on doing this converstion.
Speaking of more...
(I realize this is for a GG-1 but it's info none the less):
" The GG-1's incredible performance record is probably due to
the fact that it had to compete for its spot on the Pennsy roster.
When the PRR was in the market for a new high-speed passenger
locomotive, it was given two prototypes to consider. The GG-1, based
on the New Haven EP3, defeated the R1 in the contest to determine
which engine Pennsy would order, and so began the engine's
The 139-unit GG-1 fleet was built between 1934-44, primarily
for passenger work, though during WWII and in the 1950s when passenger
train miles were reduced the engines did dual duty, pulling freight
trains when needed. The GG-1 survived longer than any other locomotive
design, lasting well into the 1980s, and survived both the railroad
that created it and that road's successor, Penn Central."
"Baldwin built the famed EP-1 (1906), EF-1 (1912) and EP-2 (1923) box
cab electric locomotives for the New York, New Haven and Hartford
Railroad. Baldwin also delivered the EP-3 box cab electric locomotives
to the Milwaukee Road for use on their line between Harlowton, Montana
and Avery, Idaho."
More as i Find It...
No, they are called "Spider and Spring Cup Connections" and are
explained thusly: "The bull gears and driving wheels were connected by
a spider and spring cup arrangement..."
(I'm assuming that they allow the wheels to flex so they can track
better this allowing better traction like the Quill Drive does... More
as i learn it...)
This from: Steamlocomotive.com
"The Pennsylvania Railroad GG1: Quill Drive"
"The six driving axles of the GG1 were powered by twin traction motors
through double-end quill drives. The motors were rated at 385 HP each,
thus providing 770 HP per axle or a total of 4620 HP.
Each driving axle was surrounded by a rotating quill (a hollow tube)
that was connected to two large gears, called bull gears, that were
almost the same size as the drivers. They were centered on the axle,
and connected, one on each end, to the quill. This quill and gear
assembly looked like a large cable spool with the drive axle going
through the spindle hole and it was almost as wide as the distance
between the driving wheels.
The traction motors were double-ended having a shaft and pinion on
each end. Two motors were bolted together and attached to a bearing
assembly which allowed the motors to ride on the quill. The motors
with their shafts were designed to fit on the quill in such a way as
to allow the pinions to mesh with the bull gears.
Mounting the motors on the quill allowed the driving wheels and axle
to move in reaction to track conditions without affecting the meshing
of the pinions and gears. The traction motors turned the bull gears
that reached into and turned the driving wheels. The bull gears and
driving wheels were connected by a spider and spring cup arrangement."
Almost the same article with the EP-3's mentioned
"The Pennsylvania Railroad GG1: The New Haven EP-3a"
And this from Wikipedia so it's mostly true and has stains on the bag
to indicate freshness...
"A quill drive is a mechanism that allows a drive shaft to shift its
position (either axially, radially, or both) relative to its driving
shaft. It consists of a hollow driving shaft (the quill) with a driven
shaft inside it. The two are connected in some fashion which permits
the required motion..."
and a great picture!
I believe what you are looking at, are the actual outputs of the
'drive'. those "thingamabobs" being housings for 'shock absorber' thingys*
* Another technical term.
Those 'thingys' being as simple as 'rubber bushings' or as complicated
as 'shock absorbers' like used in the suspension of your car (different
shape, but same methods used).
This helps to separate the 'motor' from the 'shocks' that the wheel gets
due to rough track.
If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct things.
"Quill drive" has a hollow axle (quill) rigidly mounted in the frame
surrounding the axle that the wheels are mounted on. The drive is by
gear from the motor to the rigid axle. A "star" with cups is mounted on
the end of the quill, which meets springs (normally coils) mounted on
modified spoke cups. The springs' main function is to allow the wheels
and axles to move vertically, but they also give a small amount of load
shock absorbtion in the circular sense. The "thingamabobs" are the
opposing cups which hold the springs. (coils, rubber blocks, tennis
balls ...) As you might imagine, the coil springs have minimal tension
sideways, so the up/down movement of the wheel has relatively little
restiction from the springs but the torque is distributed through all 5.
(or however many there are)
What you've described fits the New Haven electric's drive to a T.
Here's an example of what you were talking about (but the NH only had one
gear, IIRC, so I don't know who had this example)
However, the GG-1 pics shown in the above post show a slightly different
quill. It appears in the photos that the quill's "springs" are not actually
connected to the driver, instead they simply slap back and forth within the
spokes. My guess is that these provide no shock absorption for the drivers
to avoid jostling the motors with track irregularities. It appears that
these only provide circular torque absorption and nothing else. Your
Paul A. Cutler III
Weather Or No Go New Haven
Yupp, that's just like the NZR's quill drives, except that we have a
narrower gauge and the axle goes all the way from wheel to wheel!
(just joking :-)
The driving axle still needs vertical movement in relation to the
electric motor and I don't like the sound of the quill springs slapping
loosely between the driving wheel spokes =8^] I had something like that
on an old Triumph motorcycle "sprung-hub" rear wheel once the rubbers
wore out - it wasn't nice and I'd guess it would be even worse on a loco
wheel, given the forces involved!
I found this on a totally unrelated site.
See the last sentences in particular!:
"Regarding the chain wheels with springs. Railfans will recognize them
a part of the "quill drive" used in most New Haven Rail Road electric
locomotives, as well as the Pennsylvania Railroad GG-1 electrics.
The weight of the locomotive was transferred to the axles by spring
mounted journal boxes at the ends of the axles. A hollow shaft, called
a quill, surrounded the axle, with clearance between the axle and the
inside of the quill. The quill carried a gear which was driven by
pinions mounted on the driving motor or motors (A very compact
arrangement resulted from mounting two motors driving one quill). The
quill was supported by bearings mounted to the motor frame, so that
the gears stayed in mesh. Each end of the quill carried a wheel with
springs attached. The driving wheels had a series of spokes, which
formed pockets, into which the springs fitted. The springs absorbed
torque pulsations. More importantly, the springs allowed the axle to
move independently of the locomotive frame. The quill was fixed to the
locomotive frame. The axle,mounted on springs, could move in the space
inside the quill, and could accommodate variations in track."
Well the thingamabobs are indeed part of the drive and when Mrs
Magilicutty's wash is out and all the stars align, if enough power is
applied to those thingamabobs they push on the horizontal what'sitz to
motivate the treddle! This in turn perpetuates the massive geodesic
parabola's into motion. Once they are set in motion it's all down here
from the hill folks!
(A libretto is available in the lobby)
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