Are model trains "toys" or not?

The heyday was before roads and air transport became a major force. Rising fuel prices will push the advantage back to the more economic rail. The US will probably hold out longer than the rest of us because your oil reserves and warmongering allow some control of oil prices, but the rest of us can see the light and feel the pinch.

Pac Man spake thus:

To address this latter point, this discussion so far has been mainly on the "pissing contest" level (i.e., whose trains are bigger/longer/faster). Keep in mind that the issue is actually much more complex than how long or fast one's trains are. The crucial thing is the existence (or lack thereof) of a *rail network*. The problem is moving stuff from point A to point B. That's all very well when both points A and B are in major metropolitan areas with good rail connections (say, from Boston to St. Louis), but what about those customers in East Bumfuck, Idaho? Without a rail connection, their stuff *has* to move by truck--no other choice.

The problem isn't just that the U.S. used to have a first-class passenger rail system that was dismembered, piece by piece, leaving a shell of a national passenger rail system (aka Amtrak); it's that large portions of the entire rail *network*--branch lines, smaller carriers--were likewise abandoned, the tracks ripped up, leaving us with an incomplete system. Nowhere near "world class" compared to, say, Europe, where goods can move door-to-door via rail.

Remember that cautionary bit about the "last mile", usually the most difficult part of the transportation problem to solve.

European goods trains usually run on much shorter headways on signalled track - in that situation 'bigger' isn't better, 'faster'is better. You'll notice that almost all modern locomotives have 2 axle bogies - 3 axle bogies cause far more track damage. More track damage forces train speeds down, which forces you to run ever heavier trains and heavier axle loads which causes further damage and further slowing. It's a vicious circle.

Did you overlook "hard-class"? Tourist transport may well be by air, but most people travel by train.

You're 90?

If you hadn't included the "railway-wise", I would be offended. {;^)

Well, yeah, if ya pick'em half ripe and let them "ripen" in transit. But you'd need to smoke some reefer to work up an appetite for that sort. You can grow strawberries in most of the US or in your back yard. Buy fresh, buy local, buy in season. Let 'em feed the Chilean peaches to Pinochet.

We got a flat of berries up the road a few miles; wonderful fully ripe, would never move farther than a local market without going to mush and mold. Made jam from some, ate a lot fresh, made homemade ice cream with the rest. Now we're eating blackberries and raspberries from the back yard, and the Black Tartarian cherries are coming ripe; two batches of jam already with some that were still a bit red (the minor tartness helps).

There's always the problem of a good insult retaining a link to reality! ;-)

Regards, Greg.P. NZ

Hmm. European freight trains, perhaps. I would argue that it's not the case these days in places like Australia, or China.

Agreed. But then I wasn't just referring just to goods, or Western European railways alone. Spender knows a little about US railways, and mistakenly attempts to extrapolate that very limited knowledge onto the rest of the world.

Hmm. European freight trains, perhaps. I would argue that it's not the case these days in places like Australia, or China.

But as was pointed out another poster, the practice outside the US is to run smaller, faster trains more often.

Yes, I meant the U.S. And no, I realize that rail travel, especially passenger trains, are still very popular in Europe and elsewhere.

They'd probably still be popular here if Amtrak's schedules weren't grand works of fiction and they did a better job of keeping the trains on the rails.

I didn't know the U.S. controlled oil prices. OPEC might disagree with that.

Greg is just venting against the US, with his typical "the US is evil so it's ok to invent, twist and misrepresent facts" rant, because we won't buy his mutton.

Paul

-- Excuse me, I'll be right back. I have to log onto a server in Romania and verify all of my EBay, PayPal, bank and Social Security information before they suspend my accounts.

Working the rockie road of the G&PX

I'm a bit pissed myself that clean NZ lamb isn't easier to get here than the made and adulterated in the USA hormone laced product.

You're getting confused by the yank concept that 'bigger is better' whereas in fact 'faster is better' as far as deliveries are concerned.

Europe has vaguely the same population as the USa so it's reasonable to compare the two, whereas a generalization about the 95% of the World that isn't the USa is well, fairly broad. ;-)

If you're going to run axle loadings that are beyond the capacities of the rails, 3 axle bogie locomotives and train lengths that have to be nursed, then you're going to have crap track. If you have crap track you're going to have slooow trains. If you have slow trains and vast signal blocks then you're going to have long delays. Long delays and passenger trains at the bottom of the priority list ...

Well, I wasn't intending to suggest that the US had total control but you have a major influence, buying, selling and taking over oil producing nations to keep supplies relatively constant.

You didn't take over Iraq???