Are model trains "toys" or not?

You wrote;

"No, they are still here. But we are way past the heydays of railroads",

and ;

"Do you really feel that railroads are going to make a big comeback?"

If, as you now claim, you were speaking about America only, you didn't specify that in either post. But then , neither statement is true for America, either.

I'm always a little curious that some people seem to trust the last Iraqi election less than the previous ones where Saddam Hussein received 100% of the vote.

As for oil use, China and India are no slouches.

Why would you trust any "election" in an occupied country where the foreign occupation forces choose the politicians and only allow limited numbers of people to vote? Especially when said occupation forces still run the country?

Very true, but at their present usage they might equal one US state and at present rate of increase match the US today around 2207.

Man, those 4-12-2's must have really torn up those tight curves.

I'd trust neither. But then, Saddam Hussein *never* seriously pretended Iraq was a parliamentary democracy.

I'm curious that someone who appears to be otherwise reasonably intelligent would support such an abhorrent and dishonest enterprise as the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Leaving aside the number of locals who have been killed or maimed, there's an ever increasing number of your own countrymen - kids, mostly - being killed or maimed there.

You reckon that's a good thing?

Non sequitur. Neither of these countries has anything like the per-capita private vehicle ownership that the US has, which is the main driver of your oil consumption. And neither country has any form for getting involved in other people's wars to protect their oil supplies.

Well, Steve, initially, they did. Eight engines, 9700-9707 were delivered to the OWR&N, but did such damage to the curves on the Oregon lines between Huntington & Reith they were quickly sold to the UP in

1929. And it's worth noting that the 9000s had lateral motion devices on the leading coupled axle, and the 4th coupled axle flangeless. Throughout their operating life there were limits on where they could go.

As I wrote earlier, as strange as it seems, Greg is basically correct.

Cheers,

Mark.

Agreed. I have a patch in my back yard (part of my family's little "hobby farm"). But even the best strawberry plants don't offer berries in January here in Massachusetts. I have found that even relatively tasteless strawberries are better than none, especially after you sugar them and put them in a strawberry shortcake with whipped cream.

Yum.

Paul A. Cutler III

************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************

I highly doubt it. However, there may come a day when *affordable* long distance, next day service might cease to exist.

Paul A. Cutler III

************* What have you done to save r.m.r today? *************

Speed isn't worth all that much in RR freight these days (not like the days of yore when RR's were only competing against themselves). Cost and reliability are the keys for non-captive service. Anything that's got to move fast is going to go by air or by truck, but it's going to cost. There are a lot of shippers don't care if it takes a week or a month to get a carload somewhere, they just want it to always take a week or a month, no exceptions. JIT manufacturing, for example, requires it. And if you think that C-C locos tear up the track, try speed. More speed = more money spent on maintenance to keep those speeds up.

Paul A. Cutler III

************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************

That's where the Slow Food principle of "fresh, local, IN SEASON" comes in.

Perhaps you coud find strawberry flavored twinkies and get the same sugar rush. Or freeze your own berries (we have icecream with rasperry sauce and chocolate in the middle of winter, thanks to the chest freezer in the garage.

Yes. However, if you look at the way the driver wheelbase was constructed most of the axles had side-play. You might also notice that few railways had 12 coupled steam locos. Wouldn't you think that a twelve coupled would be preferable to a double six coupled Mallet???

That's much the same thing!

Any commodity sitting in a railway wagon obviously has value - someone hands over money for the commodity and therefore doesn't have that money to utilize while it is in transit. The railway has a lot of money tied up in rolling stock - basically if transit time is halved then only half that asset is required. Start figuring a million dollars for each wagon and several million for each load. I guess you've got lower interest rates in the US, but that's a lot of money tied up in slow trains! BTW, this is my area of (work) expertise as an analysist in international container shipping.

I quite agree, but I'd point you towards Japan, Europe etc where train speeds are high - no 3 axle bogie locomotives and no slow drags. If track repair is directly related to the weight of traffic passing and increases at say the square of the speed, then wouldn't you expect to see dozens of parallel lines, all with maximum tonage slow drags bubbling along side by side? It just doesn't happen. Consider that you can get about 12 tracks in the space of a four lane highway and those are everywhere.

Greg.P.

I don't buy the idea that the voters were chosen. In fact it seemed to have been more open that previous elections. Some varieties of Muslims risked their lives to vote.

I still don't think we'll end up doing any good there in the end. The Iraqis have to change themselves, we can't do it for them. France rendered assistance during the American revolution, but that was long after the colonists had started the war, and it was merely assistance.

Of course France rendered assistance to the South during the Civil War (and for the same reasons - economic interests), and would have offered more had the Mexicans not kicked their asses.

The one thing we can learn from history is that nobody ever learns from history.

From what I have read, China will match the U.S. in oil use very soon.

I feel like an alien. The only two trains I have ever ridden are the Metra in Illinois - from Crystal Lake to Chicago, and the miniature train at the Milwaukee County Zoo.

I didn't say that - candidates were chosen by the foreign occupation forces.

That doesn't alter the fact that there were very few polling locations, particularly in Kurd territory.

Not a chance - your supporting Saddam Hussein in power for those decades and your inability to understand the Iraqi people ensures that.

Iraq has never been one people - your insistance on forcing them to be what they aren't guarentees failure.

Yes, 2107.

I wouldn't have suggested that. ;-)

Not exactly the same. Now if you Want Next Day you can get it. AS long as you are WILLING to Pay the high costs to have it. OTOH.... If no one WANTS to pay... the option will eventually disappear.

Spender spake thus:

Wow, I thought *I* was an alien, having never ridden a steam train. (Except for the little one they have here up in Tilden Park in Beserkeley.)

I rode Metra before it was Metra--the C&NW North Shore route, then green & yellow (I used to live near the Main Street station in Evanston). Same double-decker cars, I believe. (Also the same ones I saw in Alaska on the ferry train to Portage, strangely enough.)

I do pity your lack of train experience. You ought to jump on the next train you get a chance to. Even Amtrak is a lot better than nothing.