Are model trains "toys" or not?

If you didn't vote for the one candidate you were killed. Seems serious to me.

They haven't had to yet. Paul

-- Excuse me, I'll be right back. I have to log onto a server in Romania and verify all of my EBay, PayPal, bank and Social Security information before they suspend my accounts.

Working the rockie road of the G&PX

JIT is JIT - if I order the components one week before I need them and they take one week to deliver then they are JIT.

- if I order the components three days before I need them and they take three days to deliver then they are JIT. The difference is that for a one week delivery I pay for them four days earlier.

Doing that reduces the usefulness of the wagon to the small user - you (the railway) paint yourself further into the corner of only serving the bulk user, which of course reduces your income.

Sorry, there's still canals and slurry that are cheaper.

Of course - on long routes, but in Europe rail gets close.

Railways can certainly match trucks, given siding to siding operation, which is what existed in the past. Given a truck and a train of equal speed capability, the train will win point to point, particularly over 2 or more shifts.

What we're facing is large increases in oil prices. So long as (potential) supply outstrips demand the price will stay low, but once oil usage surpasses supply the bidding wars will start by those who need it most. I would predict that 90% supply would at least double the price. Fuel economic means of transport forms of transport will be in tremendous demand overnight.

I'll take a bet that they won't be able to cope with the potential increase in traffic. They will need substancial investment in track bed and rolling stock, not to mention major signalling improvements.

Outside the US. Why aren't European and Japan building 12 track railways and running slow drag trains rather than (germany) retaining restrictions of 150 axles and running goods trains at circa 160 km/hr?

Wabash from Decatur to Peru - and back; Pennsy from Fort Wayne to New York and return; Nickel Plate from Noblesville to Peru in the caboose and in the cab (grandpa); also Wabash from Wabash to Fort Wayne in the cab (great uncle); and El Capitan from Chicago to San Diego (courtesy of the US Navy; met a girl on the train and got laid - although on dates after arrival, not on the train; sorry to have missed that experience, but hard to do traveling coach).

As I stated before, no-one, least of all the the Iraqis, pretended the place was a democracy.

Form, not "forum". Form in this case means you've done it before. You know, prior convictions?

Good on yer! At least there's one of you here willing to acknowledge reality.

Still, it's better than nothing.

Um, I do have a chest freezer in my basement. We do pick and freeze our own vegetables, and if we have a bumper crop of strawberries we'll freeze 'em, too. We even make our own jelly and jam (grape, currents, etc.).

I don't know what the heck this has to do with model railroading anymore, but I'm gonna get hungry if we keep this up. LOL

Paul A. Cutler III

But not *exactly* the same thing. Sort of like comparing air travel of the 1930's vs. modern air travel. A year ago, I flew to Florida from Rhode Island to Orlando for $65 one-way ($165 for the return flight) on Southwest. Now, that's cheap any way you slice it. But back in the 1930's, the only people who flew commercial (for the most part) were rich as only they could afford it. Some goes for some future time if transportation costs skyrocket. Only the rich (or rich corporations) will have freight flown and the average to small business will not. But it will still exist. Much, much smaller, of course. But it's not going away.

Paul A. Cutler III

I dunno where this comes from (after all, we were talking about next day freight service). But in a small way I feel your pain. I've never been on a train trip that's lasted more than one day (no sleepers). However, I spent 5 years commuting to college on the MBTA's Attleboro line, and I spent a short season working for a tourist line (Cape Cod). I've also ridden on the Mt. Washington Cog Railway in NH, the Wolfeboro RR in NH, the Valley RR in CT, the Roaring Camp & Big Trees RR in CA, Edaville RR in MA, and at Steamtown in Scranton, PA (all behind steam). Plus the Maine Narrow Gauge Museum in Portland, ME, the Maine Eastern to Rockport, ME, and the Wiscasset, Waterville & Farmington in ME. And I suppose counting the rest of the MBTA's rail systems as well as several other cities (Toronto, Montreal, San Francisco, New York City, etc.). Heck, I've even ridden the rails at Disneyland and Disney World. I've taken Amtrak to New York City three times, once as a kid and twice on the Acela (and once, back on the "Bay State"). And I've also ridden Amtrak to Washington, D.C. back in 1989. But the only thing I've yet to ride that I want to is to go across country by train, 1st class. Someday.

Paul A. Cutler III

Mmmmm - just had a bowl of blackberries, fully ripened to that perfumy nectar stage. Now gotta go out and ballast the back yard (laying bluestone flags).

Even if that emotional response is outrage?

As to your locomotive, what if it evokes an emotional response from some, but not others? I don't kcare about an RS3, but get feelings of nostalgia when I see an old articulated steam loco battling a grade with a string of freight behind...

But to the original question, trains are toys to me... sophisticated toys, but toys nonetheless. But that isn't a bad thing other than the somewhat negative connotation that our society puts on "playing with toys." Is a person who hops a motorcycle "playing with a toy" when he rides? Probably, because he could easily take a car, bus or bike. But that isn't bad...

These things change... when frontiersmen lived on the edge of the wilderness, being a good shot with a rifle often kept you alive or put food on the table. But as that need for that skill became less & less, the guns they carried became more and more "toys." Few people today need to be competent with firearms, but they enjoy handling them just the same. The same could be said about many things... but those changes go both ways. There was a time when a personal computer was largely regarded as a toy. Today, more & more of us rely on them for many things other than entertainment or relaxation. As our needs change, so does the purpose of things around us.

My thoughts...

dlm

Pac Man spake thus:

Ah, then you haven't lived, my friend. One of the few high points of my childhood was the annual summer vacation we took for several years in Colorado (Estes Park). We took the Denver Zephyr (Burlington) from Chicago. Us kids got our own sleeper. I still remember lying in the bunk, looking out the window at night, scenery rushing by, rain sweeping across the glass, watching the most tremendous Midwestern lightning displays I've ever seen.

That, of course, was back in the American good old days, when Trains Were Trains ...

The point here is that when oil rises to the point that air transport costs in the order that it did in 1930, only very high value goods will be airfreighted. Businesses will favour the fuel efficient modes of transport which equates to rail. As they've found in Europe, rail can cope with both bulk and high speed container traffic. LCL and parcels went to trucking because it was labour intensive and a niusance to "streamlined" rail service.

Thank God for the rich. They are the first to buy many things which causes those things to become affordable for the average man.

And to think I have an uncle and a cousin who are/were engineers. They live in a different state. But if I had shown interest as a child I may have gotten a ride on an actual working freight line.

Ah, the monorail at Disney world. I forgot that one. I rode it twice.

The military misses those days. In WWI & WWII, rifle training was nowhere near as difficult for the trainers. Most of the recruits had fired rifles before. Today, they are lucky if a recruit has even held a rifle.

So I'll refine my statement that model trains are toys once more. Model trains are also relaxation/meditative aids.

At least they are for me.

Every old movie I see with people riding on trains makes me wish passenger service was still the same. Slower service, but we move too fast today in many respects.

A ride on the Hogwart's Express would be fun also.

"Pac Man" wrote in news:qgg7i.5243$Au6.1709@trndny04:

Strawberries are just the right size for O scale hoppers. For our relatively small patch, we only would need a couple at a time, but for larger, established patches, you could run entire unit trains out to the garden.

There's always G gauge for the really big stuff like tomatoes. :-)

If your SWMBO lets you run track into the kitchen for vegetable delivery, she's pretty smart. If she encourages you to install a rotary dumper over the sink, she's an outright genius!

Puckdropper

Actually, I was thinking more of the live steam narrow gauge engines at Disneyland and Disney World at the Magic Kingdoms. And, the diesel-steam engine at the Wold Kingdom park. That was the funniest thing. You get behind an engine that *looks* like a steam engine of Euro design, but when it accelerates, you think Peterbuilt or Mack diesel from the sound and smell. Heh. Anyways, Walt D. was quite the model railroader (trying to get back on topic), and so were many of his "Imagineers". As much as I dislike the mammoth corporation that Disney Co. has become, I have to say that I like Walt and respect his hobby efforts.

Paul A. Cutler III

I didn't even know they had other trains. Of course I haven't been there since I was 11, and it was just one day. It was too much to see in one day even back then.

Since the "side pressure" is a function of the engine weight, it would be the same for a single axle, two axle or three axle truck. In fact the 3 axle truck would be better because the forces are distributed over three contact points rather than two.

Pretty much all of the ZA main line diesels are 6 axle units (C-C) mainly to reduce axle loadings.