Are model trains "toys" or not?

On Mon, 28 May 2007 13:59:41 -0700, David Nebenzahl


I'm always a little curious that some people seem to trust the last Iraqi election less than the previous ones where Saddam Hussein received 100% of the vote.
As for oil use, China and India are no slouches.
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Spender wrote:

Why would you trust any "election" in an occupied country where the foreign occupation forces choose the politicians and only allow limited numbers of people to vote? Especially when said occupation forces still run the country?

Very true, but at their present usage they might equal one US state and at present rate of increase match the US today around 2207.
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wrote:

I don't buy the idea that the voters were chosen. In fact it seemed to have been more open that previous elections. Some varieties of Muslims risked their lives to vote.
I still don't think we'll end up doing any good there in the end. The Iraqis have to change themselves, we can't do it for them. France rendered assistance during the American revolution, but that was long after the colonists had started the war, and it was merely assistance.
Of course France rendered assistance to the South during the Civil War (and for the same reasons - economic interests), and would have offered more had the Mexicans not kicked their asses.
The one thing we can learn from history is that nobody ever learns from history.

From what I have read, China will match the U.S. in oil use very soon.
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Spender wrote:

I didn't say that - candidates were chosen by the foreign occupation forces.

That doesn't alter the fact that there were very few polling locations, particularly in Kurd territory.

Not a chance - your supporting Saddam Hussein in power for those decades and your inability to understand the Iraqi people ensures that.

Iraq has never been one people - your insistance on forcing them to be what they aren't guarentees failure.

Yes, 2107.
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Spender wrote:
>>> No. Iraq has an elected government. But the oil has nothing to do >>> with it anyway. Iraqi oil will still be placed on the commodity >>> market. Even if the U.S. government did get some cash from that, >>> they certainly ain't going to pass the savings on to U.S. >>> citizens.
>> Well, leaving aside the gross absurdity of your statement about >> Iraq's "elected" government, you've got it wrong. Forget about >> "cheap" oil: think about getting *enough* oil. That's what it's all >> about (stated as "strategic interests"). And of course the gov't >> doesn't set oil prices; that's done by the folks who *really* run >> things around here. > > I'm always a little curious that some people seem to trust the last > Iraqi election less than the previous ones where Saddam Hussein > received 100% of the vote.
I'd trust neither. But then, Saddam Hussein *never* seriously pretended Iraq was a parliamentary democracy.
I'm curious that someone who appears to be otherwise reasonably intelligent would support such an abhorrent and dishonest enterprise as the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Leaving aside the number of locals who have been killed or maimed, there's an ever increasing number of your own countrymen - kids, mostly - being killed or maimed there.
You reckon that's a good thing?
> As for oil use, China and India are no slouches.
Non sequitur. Neither of these countries has anything like the per-capita private vehicle ownership that the US has, which is the main driver of your oil consumption. And neither country has any form for getting involved in other people's wars to protect their oil supplies.
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If you didn't vote for the one candidate you were killed. Seems serious to me.

They haven't had to yet. Paul -- Excuse me, I'll be right back. I have to log onto a server in Romania and verify all of my EBay, PayPal, bank and Social Security information before they suspend my accounts.
Working the rockie road of the G&PX
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Steve the Other wrote:
> >> I'd trust neither. But then, Saddam Hussein *never* seriously >> pretended Iraq was a parliamentary democracy. > > If you didn't vote for the one candidate you were killed. Seems > serious to me.
As I stated before, no-one, least of all the the Iraqis, pretended the place was a democracy.
>> And neither country has any for[u]m for getting involved in other >> people's wars to protect their oil supplies.
Form, not "forum". Form in this case means you've done it before. You know, prior convictions?
> They haven't had to yet.
Good on yer! At least there's one of you here willing to acknowledge reality.
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Spender wrote:
>>> Greg is just venting against the US, with his typical "the US is >>> evil so it's ok to invent, twist and misrepresent facts" rant, >>> because we won't buy his mutton. >> >> You didn't take over Iraq??? > > No. Iraq has an elected government. But the oil has nothing to do > with it anyway.
Jesus, are you that naive? Are you that stupid?
Iraq has a huge occupation army in it, the majority being US troops.
Hadn't you noticed that?
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Spender wrote:

Well, I wasn't intending to suggest that the US had total control but you have a major influence, buying, selling and taking over oil producing nations to keep supplies relatively constant.
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Mark Newton wrote:

(W)European railways have lost their position as the major goods haulers - their total tonnage has stayed much the same since WWII but the percentage is barely in double figures.
Regards, Greg.P.
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Greg Procter wrote:
>> Spender wrote: >> >>> Do you really feel that railroads are going to make a big >>> comeback? >> >> Open your eyes, and look beyond the US. No need for a comeback, >> railways never went away. > > (W)European railways have lost their position as the major goods > haulers - their total tonnage has stayed much the same since WWII but > the percentage is barely in double figures.
Agreed. But then I wasn't just referring just to goods, or Western European railways alone. Spender knows a little about US railways, and mistakenly attempts to extrapolate that very limited knowledge onto the rest of the world.
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Mark Newton wrote:

Europe has vaguely the same population as the USa so it's reasonable to compare the two, whereas a generalization about the 95% of the World that isn't the USa is well, fairly broad. ;-)
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compare the two< I don't know the answer so the question is, how is land area by comparison? G
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Jon Miller wrote:

I don't have an atlas handy, but working from roughly equivalent populations and much of Europe having 2-3 times the population density I'd guess that it has circa 1/2 - 1/3 the area. ;-)
Greg.P.
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wrote:

I never extrapolated anything to the whole world anyway. Most seemed to understand I was speaking about America.
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Spender wrote:

You wrote;
"No, they are still here. But we are way past the heydays of railroads",
and ;
"Do you really feel that railroads are going to make a big comeback?"
If, as you now claim, you were speaking about America only, you didn't specify that in either post. But then , neither statement is true for America, either.
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In US and Canada, railroads have already made a big comeback, both passenger and freight. If you compare today vs. the low point of North American railroading (IOW, the 1970's), a lot more goods and people travel by rail. Freight RR's are actually attractive to Wall St. again (who da thunk that?). Deregulation, containerization, modern labor agreements, and public funding of passenger trains (not just Amtrak) has helped bring the RR's back from the brink of total federalization. If you have the time, pick up a book called, "Railroads Triumphant". It's about what almost did in North American railroading and what has brought them back (even if it's a little out of date by now).
Paul A. Cutler III ************* What have you done to save r.m.r today? *************
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Pac Man wrote:

Some of those items are/are built before the full sized article - that makes the test item the original and the full sized nuclear reactor the model! (or toy, if you will) (that didn't help, but what the ... ;-)
Greg.P.
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Pac Man spake thus:

You're right; I forgot about this class of models and should have excluded them from my categorization as "toys".
Apart from that, I still stand by my contention that they (models, not books, 747s and works of art) are toys. However, I'll refrain from calling your $3,000 custom brass model a toy ... even if it is.
--
Any system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order
of use of the word "fuck" is incapable of writing a good summary
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On Fri, 25 May 2007 22:41:58 -0700, David Nebenzahl

So in the end, a toy, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
That makes sense. After all, to many men a woman can be beautiful, a model, and a toy at the same time. Then there is friend, object of love, companion, etc.
Still, if you possess an extraordinary model train, or an exceedingly beautiful woman, and don't play with either of them... something's wrong.
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