European freight yard operations vs US Operations

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 20:32:26 -0700 (PDT), Twibil wrote:


Well, from his reply's position in the message tree, assuming we're using the best capablities of a tree structured news viewer, we can infer the target, and indeed his comment was generic to the entire thread.
--
Steve

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wrote:

Most rigid compounds had bypass valves to route high pressure steam to the low pressure side on starting because of this problem.
But this negates the claimed advantage of compound mallets that there are no high pressure connections to the front power unit.

The legendary Cornish Engines used in tin and other mines in the late 1700s and early 1800s were often compound. In fact Woolf took out a patent for this in something like 1805.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

[...]
I lived in England off and on 1945-54, in Stratford-upon-Avon my mother's hometown), about 1/2 a block from the GWR. Most freight trains were "unfitted." You could here the slack running in and out from a mile away, if the wind was right.
These trains were short (30 wagons was a "long" train", and travelled slo-o-o-owly - about 15-20mph by my (hindsighted) estimate.
cheers, wolf k.
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On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:42:25 +1200, Christopher A. Lee

That's not correct! Britain used loose link couplers on goods wagons. (from c1800 to c1960) 3 links. Sometime about 1920 a variation which used ao open T shaped link which was flipped after coupling to reduce the loose slack. Smooth train operation depended on journal friction and the Brake Van at the rear of the train to keep the train stretched. Small goods locos (0-6-0) could haul relatively heavy trains at slow speeds because such a train could be reversed to eliminate the slack and then got moving one wagon at a time. Of course they were limited on gradients, but Britain is relatively flat. European goods trains had screw couplers from 1858. The screw link was thrown over the center coupler hook and then the screw link was tightened until the opposing buffers were gently compressed. The coupling and buffer springs were then in compression tension against each other. The advantage is that shock loads are greatly reduced. Offsetting this is the fact that the entire train runs as a single unit. IMO this is a major reason why European goods trains are generally short and therefore run at higher speeds.

US trains still need the brake hoses coupling manually. The shunting assistant might as well couple the wagons while he is there! ;-)
Regards, Greg.P.
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I've already covered that. And the "T" shaped coupler was called the "Instanter", already covered that aswell.

We've covered all of that as well.

And all that.

And that.
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Cheers.

Roger T.
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wrote:

OK, haven't kept up with this thread - however, I started my post to correct incorrect information being posted.
Regards, Greg.P.
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Hi,
Greg.Procter wrote:

A few years back I was watching a few wagons being coupled to the train I was riding on. The guy was standing right inside the buffers as the extra wagons approached - with no way to get out quickly... This may be forbidden, but I'd rather see center couplers than such a procedure!
So, in this case I do appreciate any country with center couplers installed throughout the system! No matter whether the brake lines need manual coupling...
Apart from that, especially freight trains are quite often not coupled as closely with the screw-couplers as they should be, nor are passenger trains... So there still is the possibility to "reverse" the engine and compress the train, so as to start the train a wagon at a time - even if it's less than with a very loose coupler. Actually, if the engine crew does it right while stopping the train, they have the train already compressed when starting.
But most freight trains I do see are quite short (five locos with 12 wagons!) or mostly empty (10 container on ~20 wagons), so this ain't necessary anyway.
In the end, it's not always "black and white" as in "good and bad", but mostly some shade of "gray" - screw-type couplers have some advantages over center couplers and vice versa... Both the American as well as the European systems have derailments, trains "loosing" wagons, whatever... Neither system uses a fully automatic coupler...
Actually I do think, a fully automatic coupler might simply not work well - imagine some attachment to the normal coupler that connects the brake lines and opens the valve once the lines connect. If a wagon separated from the train, the valves would close and the separate wagon would continue rolling for quite a time without braking! So either there is some built-in failsafe safeguard or this ain't possible? Probably it would be sufficient to delay closing the valves after separation for a second or two? Again, very gray ;-)
This - in a much smaller scale - is a point on a model railroad - badly aligned couplers and train separation... To my shame I must admit I do have a few such cars...
Ciao...
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One thing to remember is that American practice diverged strongly from European practice very quickly. Europeans did short trains with small power till just recently and thus didn't need the American style couplers that would allow rapid assembly of trains of long length. Thus the European need for air braking systems and so forth weren't as needed. For a reference of how far the two systems had diverged, go look at the testing done on the Karuss-Maffei locos destined for the DRG and SP in the '60s. Very interesting story.
-- Bob May
rmay at nethere.com http: slash /nav.to slash bobmay http: slash /bobmay dot astronomy.net
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All European trains have and had air braking for the last 150 odd years.

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I think you are wrong. Most British trains were vacuum braked until relatively recent (40 odd years) times.
That is assuming you include Britain as par of the European continent.
--
Mike Hughes
A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:04:13 +1200, Mike Hughes

Britain part of the European Continent? Absolutely not - for most of the period that railways have existed, Europe was isolated from Britain by the English Channel, or by La Manche from the French point of view. As such European and British railways developed separately. Other parts of Europe also used vacuum brakes, but if they wanted to run wagons outside their own systems they had either to add parallel airbrakes or convert. Through air brake piping was the absolute minimum.
Regards, Greg.P.
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On 9/2/2009 7:04 PM Mike Hughes spake thus:
>

Isn't vacuum braking a form of air braking? (Uses air, after all.)
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:13:40 +1200, David Nebenzahl

It's more a "no air" system. Like IBM and Apple, both personal computers operating on binary code, but ...
Regards, Greg.P.
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I thought most Brits still do not consider themselves Euros, regardless of the EU. I know they didn't when I lived there. :-)
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Roger T.
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On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 21:26:19 -0700, Roger T. wrote:

Yeah, they're pounds.
--
Steve

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Har de har-har. :-)
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Cheers.

Roger T.
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Sorry guy but the whole thread indicated different than that. While I won't disagree that there are some trains that did have air brakes in Europe, most of the trains didn't as exposed by other comments in the thread. Sounds basicly more like you're just a nitwit.
-- Bob May
rmay at nethere.com http: slash /nav.to slash bobmay http: slash /bobmay dot astronomy.net
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On 9/3/2009 3:16 PM Bob May spake thus:

Since I have no idea *who* you're replying to here or what specific point you're commenting on since you don't do quoting, I can only conclude that you're just a nitwit.
You know, if *every* other person here quotes, and attributes quotes, in more or less the same fashion, and you're the odd man out, well, *you* figure out who ought to change the way they post.
--
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:49:10 -0700, David Nebenzahl wrote:

Whoa - you and Twibil are getting a bit Procterish around the head and shoulders - perhaps you've had your heads into it a bit too much, and that CAN be one of the hazards of Procterology, but please don't leave your heads up and locked.
--
Steve

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On 9/4/2009 7:09 AM Steve Caple spake thus:

I disagree. This is nothing like netkkkopping; just a reminder to one particularly stubborn individual that he's quite out of sync with the way almost everyone else here posts (and for good reason).
Or to quote Kafka*: "In the fight between you and the world, back the world."
* Possibly out of context here, but hey, if the shoe fits ...
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Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

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