motors for old steam

Well, I'm actually almost done building the "partially-assembled" (yeah, 10 parts assembled) Penn Line PRR E-6 Atlantic, with the almost original
motor, the DC-60.
Does anyone know of a source for a replacement motor that does *not* cost $38 (+s&h), and that does *not* short every time you cross your eyes at it, and does not bind as soon as I bolt it to the frame? (And before you ask, yes, I've made sure the wheels spin easily, and don't bind, nor does the motor.)
This is the most frustrating part of the whole building.
For that matter, does the motor need to be broken in? I have to spin it with my finger to get it started.
mark
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

$38 (+s&h), and that does *not* short every time you cross your eyes at it, and does not bind as soon as I bolt it to the frame?<
If you don't mind ebay these motors are on all the time. #250225977439
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
mark wrote:

Hi Mark; These motors were usually mounted with screws that went through 'slots' in the frame casting. The 'slots' allowed you to adjust the 'mesh' of the worm/ worm gear (on the driver axle) If you slide the motor as far forward as the slots will allow, the 'mesh' should be quite loose. and everything should be quite free (but sloppy). Moving the motor to the rear will reduce the 'slop' in the worm/ worm gear. The proper adjustment, is when there is almost NO free movement of the driver (without moving the motor armature), but the armature can be rotated slightly without causing rotation of the driver.)
Chuck D.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
mark wrote:

The motor binds because it's not properly aligned with the drive gear. You have to adjust its angle relative to the frame, which you can do by inserting washers between it and the frame before tightening down the mounting bolt. You may not need a new motor if this is the problem.

I'm assuming you've oiled the motor bearings. If so, then you have to spin it, one of the windings is disconnected somehow. A broken wire between commutator and winding is the most likely cause. Another is a corroded solder joint. You also mention intermittent shorts - I don't know how you diagnosed that, but if you mean that the engine just stops, a disconnected winding could be the cause for that, too, esepcially at low speeds.
Re: breaking in: any kit built engine should be broken in. Do this with the bare frame, before mounting the superstructure. I used to have a 36"x45" oval just for breaking in. If you don't have a continuous run on your layout, you can do the break in on the workbench. Put the engine upside down in a cradle before applying power.
This is is the gold method (I've done it once): Begin by applying good quality lubricants (Labelle, AeroCar are both good - avoid household lubricants), and run for about 15 minutes in each direction. Slosh the bare frame in a Pyrex bowl filled with methyl alcohol. You can run the motor as long as it's submersed, by the way: no oxygen, no risk of fire. Do this outdoors. Running the motor helps rinse out the old lubricant. Then apply a bit of non-gel toothpaste to the gears, some more oil to the motor bearings, etc, and run for an hour or more in each direction, reversing every ten minutes or so. Clean out the toothpaste (requires disassembly), and relubricate. The toothpaste acts as a lapping compound.
The easier method is to just run the loco in normal service, and lubricate whenever it makes noises that indicate dry bearings. After a few hours, the engine will run very smoothly.
HTH
--
wolf k.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Wolf K. wrote:

[...]
PS: check the gears. On many of the older kit engines, the worm gear and/or the worm were cast plastic, and parting lines could interfere with smooth running. In that case, you may have to replace the gears, too. Go to North West Short Line, they have gears (and motors) for just about every kit engine ever made. pricey, though, but if you want the best, they're it.
HTH
--
wolf k.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Wolf K. wrote:

<snip> I'm assuming you've oiled the motor bearings. If so, then you have to
Yup. Uhhh, bearings - that's like the felt washers, right? <g>
spin it, one of the windings is disconnected somehow. A broken wire between commutator and winding is the most likely cause. Another is a corroded solder joint. You also mention intermittent shorts - I don't know how you diagnosed that, but if you mean that the engine just stops,
No - you see sparks as the trailing truck insulated wheel rim hits the frame; ditto with the insulated driver. Plastic from a new shirt collar, and enough paint seems to have insulated it. <snip> I can't remember if I posted my own followup, but... the first thing that needed fixing was breaking the motor itself in. An acquaintance noted that back in the fifties and sixties, when this kit was made, the brushes were just cut off square. I took the motor off the frame, and ran it one way for 5 min with no load, full speed, then the other way. Half an hour of this, and they were concave, fitting the rotor. Works a *lot* better. Actually runs (with some encouragement) by itself.

Another part of it is that the back bolt on the motor goes through the frame, but no further - not enough to put a nut on, and the frame's not tapped. So there's play that I can't get rid of, though I may try something like bent washers. But yeah, I've done some, but I'll try more. <snip>
Thanks!
mark
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
mark wrote:

Following up my own post. I was talking to someone yesterday, who suggested it needed breaking in, and what that meant: with a motor made this long ago, the brushes aren't contoured, they're just cut. So I unmounted the motor, and ran it for half an hour, five minutes one way, then five the next, alternating, so it wouldn't have a preferred direction. It actually could have done in 20... but when I took it off, the brushes had been ground down by the motor running with no load, fast, and instead of a pencil-thin contact, the entire face now contacted the rotor.
Loco runs.
mark "and there was much rejoicing"
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 3/18/2008 6:37 PM mark spake thus:

If you ever run into this situation again, and if you can remove the brushes from the motor (some are easier than others to do so), you can shape the brushes with a small round file or sandpaper wrapped around a toothpick to help the process along.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.