MR construction articles

I can't imagine any legitimate basis for complaining about the price of the kits that are coming onto the market now. I am constantly surprised at how INEXPENSIVE they are, considering their quality.

I had a splurge the other day at my LHS. I came home with two P2K Mather boxcars, two Walthers wood cabooses, a Red Caboose GS gondola and a Branchline Blueprint postwar AAR boxcar. I spent AUD$100. At an average of $16 each, I'm not about to complain.

This is a common refrain, heard in model railroading and other modelling pursuits. I can only speak for myself when I say that I didn't become a modeller with a view towards teaching it to others.

Don't get excited Wolf - it's bad for your blood pressure :-).

I'm retired - I complain about the high cost of everything :-). But probably less about kits and not at all about supplies.

I don't know how good a modeller you are, but I'm very much still in the learning stage. I'm currently building scenery for a diorama, the first time I've ever gotten to the scenery stage. Some of it doesn't look too bad, at least not on the 4th or 5th try :-).

I'm not a writer, but I did recently teach a series of beginner classes in cooperation with our local clmmunity college and the NMRA. I managed to stay ahead of the class, but in some cases not by much :-).

In short, Wolf, methinks thou dost protest too much (Sorry W.S.).

Larry Blanchard wrote: ...snip...>

I've scratchbuilt models, kitbuilt models, kitbashed models for about 50 years, and I'm still learning. If you put people like Jack Work, Jack Burgess, Pete Moffett, Al Westerfield, etc at the head of the class, I'm very much in the average middle. :-)

I helped out at Junior Modellers room at the Toronto 2003 Convention. Very satisfying, lots of fun. Kids _like_ to build stuff, they just want someone to give them a bit of a starter and to help them over the rough spots. We all do, actually. :-)

Well, as a long time (mostly armchair) modeller I am glad to see the manufacturers getting together with interested modellers to push the hobby.

Yes, it benefits the manufacturers. They have a chance to sell products to new customers .... is this wrong?

It also allows those of us who want to advertise the hobby easy access to quality graphics, coordinated marketing devices. At a local train show last year we were able to pass out over 250 colour booklets provided at no charge by the WGH campaign. None of our own groups (SIGS, divisions, etc) have the resources to do this.

Commercial yes. In poor taste ... depends on the gauge and prototype they use in their materials *s*.

If as hobbyists we want to take shots at the manufacturers we better be willing to fund an alternative.

My slightly devalued Cdn 2 cents

Ron Gillies

Norm posts -

Norm, fraudulent is your word, not mine. In common usage there is quite a difference between perpetrating a fraud and creating a shame. I'd have felt a lot better about matters if the industry had simply stated its true purpose instead of misleading hobbyists, as was done by statements made at the outset of the WGH campaign.

Incidentally, if you check around you'll find that MRIA seems to have taken over a considerable portion of WGH operation and they, specifically, represent the manufacturers interests (greater profits). However, and much to their favor, it does appear they are attempting to organize a _true_ hobby-booster program beginning in 2005. We'll have to see how that turns out.

CNJ999

The World's Greatest Hobby campaign was created by and is run by the Model Railroad Industry Association

The NMRA endorses what the WGH is doing, but I don't think they are providing any financial commitment. The WGH was going to spend $1 million through 2007, but I can't say that I've seen that kind of impact - yet. But there are a few years to go.

Thanks, Mark. I stand corrected.

Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

Sorry, but in common usage when you say a business has done something dishonest it implies criminal behavior. Your words.

Here's what the MRIA says about the program:

**************************** The "World's Greatest Hobby" is a five-year campaign for promoting the hobby of model railroading to the general public. The purpose is to reinvigorate the model railroad industry. The program has three basic components: (1) to amplify the grass roots promotional efforts of hobbyists themselves; (2) to conduct a public relations effort coupled with advertising to our target group of men between the ages of 45 and 64; and (3) to make it easy for beginners to get started in the hobby.

The program was launched in September of 2001. MRIA manages the program for the industry. Thirteen MRIA member companies and MRIA are sponsors, with a commitment of over $1 million during the life of the campaign.

*****************************

You might note that the stated purpose is to reinvigorate the model railroad industry. A stated means is to target a specific audience with advertising. It's all up-front. Nothing hidden. It's a campaign to try to generate more industry sales by increasing the numbers in the hobby.

Have they accomplished all 3 components yet? Nope, but there's still 2 years to go.

According the MRIA web site, they appear to have created the program and have been coordinating it all along. They haven't "taken it over," they've been running it from the beginning.

They're not organizing a new "true hobby-booster" program, they're continuing to expand what they've been doing. A five year campaign doesn't accomplish everything in the first year. It's built in incremental steps.

Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

Mike posts -

Sorry, Mike, but the justice system sees a vast gulf between what is simply dishonest and what is criminal behavior. A sham implies simple misrepresentation, fraud is the act of purposely deceiving someone for financial gain. They ain't the same.

I suggest you check further. If you do you will find that MRIA is attempting to organize a dramatic new traveling model railroad show, in their words bigger than anything every seen in the U.S. before, that will tour five major cities in 2005 and a greater number in 2006/2007. Its sole purpose will be to promote new public interest in the hobby. If they do accomplish this it will be the first effort WGH has truly made to help the hobby and not just themselves.

Incidentally, regarding objective #3, from what I was advised yesterday, just wait and see what the industry has up its collective sleeve for the big retail discounters in the hobby that so many of us depend on. Those so much desired beginning hobbyists better come to the hobby with fat wallets.

CNJ999

Well, why don't you just enlighten all of us ignorant folks out here? You seem to know just what the MRIA and the manufacturers are going to do, so go ahead and tell us!

We'd like references, of course.

Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

I see this discussion of WGH is slowly decending into a matter of semantics, so let me approach the situation in a different way.

Mike T has posted, assertedly from MRIA own home page, the objectives of WGH, as well as its being the originator of the campaign. In response to this I suggest that any truly interested party consult the original announce of WGH in the pages of MR and see the rather different impression that is given.

A couple of brief quotations from Andy Sperandeo's At The Throttle editorial from the October 2001 issue are particularly noteworthy to the discussion and to save time I'll quote them here. Andy writes,"We're kicking off an ambitious program to encourage more people to become involved in model railroading. The 'we' I'm using here isn't in the editorial convention, because this effort has the _support_ of MRIA, Walthers, Atlas, Marklin, and Micro-Trains."

The impression here is that WGH is being initiated by Kalmbach/MR with the support of others, not by MRIA and that it is for the specific benefit of the hobbyists. Regarding NMRA, it doesn't even get mentioned anywhere in the editotial, nor will it until many months later.

As to identifying the campaign's objectives, Andy writes,"(WGH) will use advertising and public relations to raise the general public's awareness of model railroading and help anyone attracted to the hobby in getting started." Their is no indication whatever that the campaign's intent was,"to reinvigorate the model railroad _industry_", as Mike quotes.

The bottom line is that the ultimate objectives of WGH changed with time from hobbyist oriented to industry centered. Read the whole editorial yourselves and see what conclusions you tend to draw.

CNJ999

Really?

Let's see.

Andy: "We're kicking off an ambitious program to encourage more people to become involved in model railroading." MRIA: "... is a five-year campaign for promoting the hobby of model railroading to the general public..."

Sounds the same to me.

Andy: "... will use advertising and public relations to raise the general public's awareness of model railroading..." MRIA: "to conduct a public relations effort coupled with advertising to our target group of men..."

Hmmm. Advertising, public relations. Yep, looks like the same thing.

Andy: "..and help anyone attracted to the hobby in getting started." MRIA: " ... to make it easy for beginners to get started in the hobby.

Ditto.

Now, MRR puts a slightly different spin to their audience (public) than the MRIA does to theirs (industry,) but that should elicit a big, fat "Duh."

The objectives seem to be the same. So, how about the actual product?

A quick visit to

shows a wealth of information, how-to's, plans, etc. There's the speakers bureau, tips on how to grow the hobby, finding a club layout.

There's a "WGH Track Plan" with a WGH Track Pack" that allows step-by-step building of a small layout.

There's also an on-line version of the free booklet they hand out at train shows.

Everything on that site meets the objectives outlined by Andy and the MRIA. It's a great source for beginners (and probably for some not-so-beginners) or for clubs looking for ideas to expand their membership.

The objectives are (and have been) the same. The web site provides a wealth of information, all aimed at meeting the hobbyist-oriented objectives.

So, in what way is it a "business sham?"

Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

Because there are some people out there who hate Kalmbach, Athearn, etc. To them, anything these companies do is bad, so therefore, WGH is bad. I'm sure that these people would prefer some volunteer modeler group to have started WGH (but not the NMRA 'cause they are bad, too) to make the motives of the campaign to be pure as the driven snow, but that didn't happen. But these people cannot seem to realize that a) WGH requires capital, b) what's good for the model railroad manufacturers is good for model railroaders (to steal a phrase from IBM), and c) there is no downside to a successful WGH campaign, no matter who is bankrolling it.

Paul A. Cutler III

************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************

Sounds more like GM:

"

"

IBM, GM, same difference, right? ;-) That's what I get for posting from memory...

Paul A. Cutler III

************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************

Actually, from GM, courtesy of "Engine Charlie" Wilson:

//Remember ´planned obsolescence,¡ three-year styling cycles, and five years to rusted-out hulks? Superior disk brakes that were not adopted by G.M. until decades after they were commonplace in Europe? Or Detroitÿs refusal to make quality compacts until foreign cars had secured 20 percent of U.S. market share? At those Senate hearings in 1955, Charlie Wilson, the chairman of General Motors, summed up G.M.ÿs philosophy: ´Whatÿs good for General Motors is good for the rest of America.¡//

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Mike T posts -

(snip)

(snip)

Mike, may I with respect remind you that it was you that originally posted the question,"I've noted that it is common here to denigrate that (WGH) campaign. Why is that?"

Well, I've posted the answer to that question as I have heard it espoused by many longtime hobbyists of my acquaintance and to which I agree. You may personally take a differing view, or say we are misreading the WGH's true final objectives, or whatever, but that isn't really relavent to the question. This is still the way many see the situation and consider it a sham. You need to accept that ours is just as valid and demonstrable a position as your own.

Incidentally, as a longtime hobbyist, you should already have been aware that nearly all of the hobbyist "benefits" provided in the current WGH program (as outlined in your preceeding post) had been available for a great many years prior to WGH, just not necessarily under one banner but spread between MRIA, Kalmbach, and the NMRA. As I've indicated elsewhere in this thread, if MRIA eventually does offer a huge traveling model railroad train show, specifically aimed at the general public, it will be the program's only "first" since WGH began three years ago.

CNJ999

Paul, may I remind you that C.E.Wilson's statement was made undyingly famous by stairist Al Capp in 1953 in Lil' Abner, when the ruthless capitalist General Bullmoose states,"What's good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA!" Is there perhaps an analogy here?

CNJ999

I thought Charlie Wilson, SecDef, I believe under Eisenhower, said what's good for General Motors is good for America. Correction please, if needed. :)