New railroad chartered. L-girders ahoy!

Why use this outdated method? Regular 2x4s cost less, are easier to use, and are stronger.

Folks:

To all this I should add that I'm open to any and all suggestions on ways to make train layout legs that will be sturdy and able to adjust to any height between 36" and 54".

Cordially yours: Gerard P. President, a box of track and some L-girders

snipped-for-privacy@gannon.edu wrote in news:1173996595.684188.306710 @b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

*snip*

IMO, the easiest thing to do would be to use different length legs and put the ones on you need. 18" of adjustment could get to be more trouble than it's worth.

However, the way to do that much adjustment would probably like some manufacturers do. Get a couple sections of pipe that fit nicely in each other, and drill through the middle of the inner pipe and then drill through your outer pipe at your desired adjustment intervals. (You may find predrilled pipe for drainage systems will work.) If you want 1/2" adjustment increments, you'll need to turn the pipe and drill new holes there. Use a peg to keep the leg at the right height.

For more adjustability, use some form of leg adjuster (the Ntrak club I'm in likes eye-bolts.) As long as your pipe intervals are less than the adjustment from these adjusters, you've got practically infinate adjustment range between your min and max.

Puckdropper

Pd:

You're probably right about the trouble -- I do want to be able to try different heights, though.

My original plan was to fabricate hollow legs from two 1x3's and two

1x2's, which would slip on to rigidly fixed 2x2 stubs at the top, and have telescoping 2x2 sections at the bottom, with traditional teenut adjusters in the end...but I realized as soon as I cut parts for one that a nominal 3" width minus two nominal 1" thicknesses doesn't quite fit a 2x2 without planing it down, and a 4" width is too much.

I've considered the PVC pipe, but I'm concerned about cost (I've got heaps of 1x3's) and rigidity - I don't know if I could find a size to telescope perfectly into another, and if I could, the fit would probably be too tight. I was also hoping to use the upper 2x2 stubs as corner blocks for the grid structure. I want to be able to bounce this thing off the walls.

What I'll probably do is make up 3x3 angles from a 1x2 and a

1x3, forget about the slip-fit idea, and use carriage bolts and wing nuts to assemble the 2x2 stubs to the angle.

Eyebolts as adjusters, interesting. I assume these go into teenuts, and the eye provides a handy way to turn the bolt - using a rod through the eye. I'll probably end up using carriage bolts.

Cordially yours: Gerard P. President, a box of track and some L-girders.

Think about acquiring a table or radial arm saw and rip the outer leg box pieces to the desired width. Used saws turn up frequently on Craigslist and yard sales in the $50-$75 area. For a serious bench work project such a tool makes all the wood cutting easier, faster, and better looking. Power saws make a straighter and smoother cut than you and I can do with a handsaw. Even a small 8 inch model is plenty good enough for benchwork.

David Starr

DS:

Oh, definitely I've thought about it, and some day may well obtain one or the other...with that and a drill press you can do pretty much any shop project ever. I do have a Skilsaw for big stuff, but I've been using handsaws for a long time, and can cut pretty straight and square with one. At the moment I'll just work with what I've got; if I get bogged down in plans I never get to the fun part...

Some day, though...

Cordially yours: Gerard P. President, a box of track and some L-girders.

12" compound miter saws have made the dangerous radial arm saws obsolete. Don't buy one. Handsaws, I didn't know they sold them any more!?

Drywall screws should be used when installing drywall. Wood screws should be used when assembling wood components. Pilot holes are advisable in most cases.

I have found in the past that drywall screws tend to break far more easily than wood screws, when used as a means of joining wood together. Now that could be because of stress that benchwork wouldn't be subjected to, but I prefer to build things once .

It sounds like he already has the 1x3s. And if they are old and clear, probably nicer to use tha contemporary cheap 2x4s.

As a former cabinetmaker, I have to agree with those who have cautioned against getting a radial arm saw. They were popular back in the 60s and 70s, but I'm not sure any serious shop uses them now. Well, maybe they have some specialist use that isn't coming to mind, but they were sold as pretty much a one-machine woodshop- even with moulding heads available. Even one of those gawdawful Shopsmiths would be better :)

Dale

P.S. A small drill press and an old bandsaw (not Craftsman!) would serve you pretty well.

Oh- I forgot to mention this- don't use nails when building benchwork. I guess if they're only there to hold things together until glue dries, they are OK. But nails will eventually work their way out again. Screws are much better, and you don't beat the crap out of everything putting them in. Not to mention the noise...

Get drywall screws (inexpensive and quick to drive in) and drill pilot holes if you have trouble with them snapping off while going in. The latter shouldn't be an issue with fir, unless it's very hard. Using screws, you can even skip the glue- making disassembly and reconfiguration much easier when/ if the time comes.

Dale

Probably true, in a purist sense, but we aren't talking about fine woodworking here. I would respectfully assert that drywall screws are more than adequate (esp. vs. nails), and cheap enough to be an attractive alternative to one who might otherwise use nails. But yeah- if you really seek proper benchwork construction, stick to wood crews exclusively. And countersink them as well :)

Very true.

Dale

Actually, drywall screws are better than wood screws for almost every purpose. Their sharp, deep threads hold better in all softwoods, especially on end grain. For #6, and even #8 in most situations, no pilot hole is needed.

In fact, the new wood screw designs used for flooring and decking borrow from the drywall screw: they have sharper, deeper threads than traditional wood screws. They also come in a variety of coatings for indoor and outdoor use.

Traditional wood screws are designed for hardwoods, which should be joined with dovetails and biscuits when used for fine cabinet work. Or so my woodworking friends tell me. ;-)

Truth be told, I've usually always used wood screws when fastening wood together. I've watched friends try using drywall screws with next to no luck, but they are to wood working what I am to golf, just hacks .

I prefer screws over nails hands down, too. Screws are superior in many ways.

Thanks for bailing me out on this one, Wolf :) I was a cabinetmaker for almost 30 years, until my back gave out. Everything from large way-underbudget kitchens to high-end cabinetry. Of course, for the latter, I'd use traditional joinery (never have tried those new-fangled biscuits :) but otherwise I really preferred drywall screws, especially if you're putting a plug over them anyway. But they do have the downside of snapping off maybe 5% of the time unless you at least drill a pilot hole though the first piece to be joined to make up for the fact that they have a threaded shank. And it's good insurance against splitting, although I've never had much of a problem with that with end grain.

I suppose nails have their place. Actually, brads have their place- if I were to even frame a house these days, I'd use screws over nails :)

Dale

should be used when assembling wood components.<

I'm not sure how you tell the difference anymore except for decking screws which are well marked and expensive. I think the older "black" drywall screws tended to be brittle but the newer "gold" ones seem to be much stronger and used for both drywall and wood. Then there is the Phillips vs Square drive. Here on the West coast it's hard to find Square drive bits however you can buy hex bits by the hundreds!

I am in Washington State. I have found the square bits (in a set of bits) at Fred Meyer's. The pack is less than $10.00 there.

I have been using the black drywall screws for years and have never broken one. I am using 1X4 pine. If the wood is old or very hard, you can run the screw over a bar of soap to help lubricate it.

Dale:

Right, they're just there for clamping the laminated girder, and they're just small 6d finish nails, so any crap-beating was minimal at worst. I prefer to use glue for large-area joints that are not designed to come apart...like L-girders, but I definitely do use screws where the joint area or future disassembly dictates it.

I used ordinary wood screws instead of drywall ones, just because I had a bunch of them around for my rewiring project...junction boxes and such are really supposed to be mounted with plated screws, not black ones, and I don't really like drywall screws for that job anyway. For bench work they're the cat's meow...but I don't use them in lengths of over 2" if I can help it; I find that those are REALLY one-way fasteners and tend to break if you try to say otherwise, especially if a bit rusted.

Radial arm saws...well, maybe the cabinetmakers don't like 'em, but I know of a few farm shops and general workshops where they come in handy.

Cordially yours: Gerard P. President, a box of track and some L-girders.

I should have said Phillips not hex. Was thinking about a DCC problem at the time. Yes I can get ones and twos but I thinking of the boxes of 25 and 50 which the Phillips come in.