Is there an order that sections / drawing rooms / compartments / others
(???) are listed? I never see passenger car designations with a zero in
them, so the system doesn't seem as orderly as the Whyte system of
locomotive classification... from the numerical designation, how can a
person tell whether a "12-1" is 12 sections and 1 drawings room, or
something else (such as 12 sections and 1 compartment?)
Due to the limited number of combinations used by Pullman this doesn't seem
to have been a problem. A 12-1, 10-1-2 or 8-1-2 are specific combinations of
accomodations, and are widely understood. A 6-3 was always an all room car
(no sections); though there were different designs of 6-3 cars they would
have the same general disposition, though the location fo the rooms may
For heavyweights the open sections are listed first, e.g. 12-1, 8-2-1,
10s-obs ect. After that it can get a bit murky, but usually drawing roms
come next and then compartments. 8-1-2 and 10-1-2 had 8 or 10 open sections,
one drawing room and 2 compartments. There wewre a number of other
combinations possible some more popular than others, but the context usually
gives the meaning if you take the time to get familiar with the
To effectively model a heavyweight Pullman car you need to know the Pullman
plan of the car you are modelling; for example the first steel 12-1 design
was plan 2410 or 2410x, where x is a suffix letter which imples variations
on the basic 2410 plan. In the 20s this design was replaced by cars to plan
3410/3410x which were essentially similar in layout and again the with the
suffix implying subtle variations on the 12-1 theme.
From the point of view of basic operations they were all 12-1s, though I
would imagine choice words might be used on the clerk who assigned a 2410 to
a premium train after the 3410 cars were introduced in any numbers. Visit
www.pullmanproject.com for downloadable spreadsheets which give plan
numbers, names and some history of thousands of cars.
So why would you need a zero? Is there any reason to know what type
accommodation a car does NOT have? The car designations usually start
with the most numerous type of accommodation working down to the least
numerous, however there are LOTS of exceptions like 8-1-2s or CN's E
class sleepers 4-8-4 (4 bedrooms, 8 duplex roomettes, 4 sections).
Your extension, again not mine. Both of these systems were created
separately for their own purposes and are well understood by their
users, what point would be served by trying to change one to match the
I suggest you read Robert Heller's post. There is no point in my
reposting his excellent explanation.
According to http://www.srmduluth.org/Features/pullmans.htm , there are
something like 4 basic types:
The original open section type car:
"A common floorplan would have 12 sleeping sections (upper and lower
berths, with hallway curtains), one drawing room with its own toilet
facilities, a men's dressing room and a women's dressing room."
Later were closed room type cars with combinations of 1, 2, or 3 berths:
"The one-person roomette has a sofa, toilet, and washstand, plus a bed
which folds out from the wall. The compartment has a long sofa which
converts into a bed, and an overhead, folddown berth, plus the same
toilet and washstand facilities as a roomette. The drawing room has a
long sofa which coverts into a bed, two chairs, an overhead folddown
berth, and a third bed which folds out from the wall; the toilet
facilities are located in an adjoining separate area."
Added to this mix were things like the slumbercoaches that where
introduced late in Pullman's existance, but they are almost a whole
separate type of car altogether.
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software -- Linux Installation and Administration
Parlor cars had nice comfy individual seats and bar service. First class
passengers had free access to them, but the ordinary folk were barred.
Hollywood often set first encounters between hero and heroine (and
villain, etc) in parlor cars. IIRC 28-1 means 28 seats and 1 drawing
room or bedroom. Plus of course a small bar/service counter.
Thanks a lot... I think that's what makes it tough for a non- passenger car
modeler. There is a sort of implied understanding needed for the
designations, beyond simply the numbers. If nothing else from this thread
I learned that a 12-1 (sections, drawing rooms) was probably the most common
arrangement. And I can see how -- when there was one primary builder of
cars -- there wouldn't be much of a need for a more detailed system.
The Green Bay Route: http://www.greenbayroute.com /
"I started out with nothing and I still have most of it."
Pretty much all sleeping cars in North America adhered to the same identifying
standard. 12-1s were built by Pullman, Pressed Steel, and others. A 10-2-1,
8-2-1, was all the same nomenclature no matter who the builder.
This common standard of configuration ID continued into the lightweight, or
streamlined rea as well. The cars were arranged differently, but all the
manufacturers adhered to the same identification method.
A 10-6 was a ten roomette - six bedroom whether it was built by ACF, Budd, or
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