[proto] sleeper dersignations

The numbers refer to the number(s) of different sorts of rooms. Singles, doubles, others.

Examples:

12-1 is 12 section, 1 drawing room 8-1-1 is 8 section, 1 drawing room, 1 compartment. HTH

Is there an order that sections / drawing rooms / compartments / others (???) are listed? I never see passenger car designations with a zero in them, so the system doesn't seem as orderly as the Whyte system of locomotive classification... from the numerical designation, how can a person tell whether a "12-1" is 12 sections and 1 drawings room, or something else (such as 12 sections and 1 compartment?)

Due to the limited number of combinations used by Pullman this doesn't seem to have been a problem. A 12-1, 10-1-2 or 8-1-2 are specific combinations of accomodations, and are widely understood. A 6-3 was always an all room car (no sections); though there were different designs of 6-3 cars they would have the same general disposition, though the location fo the rooms may differ.

For heavyweights the open sections are listed first, e.g. 12-1, 8-2-1,

10s-obs ect. After that it can get a bit murky, but usually drawing roms come next and then compartments. 8-1-2 and 10-1-2 had 8 or 10 open sections, one drawing room and 2 compartments. There wewre a number of other combinations possible some more popular than others, but the context usually gives the meaning if you take the time to get familiar with the descriptions.

To effectively model a heavyweight Pullman car you need to know the Pullman plan of the car you are modelling; for example the first steel 12-1 design was plan 2410 or 2410x, where x is a suffix letter which imples variations on the basic 2410 plan. In the 20s this design was replaced by cars to plan

3410/3410x which were essentially similar in layout and again the with the suffix implying subtle variations on the 12-1 theme.

From the point of view of basic operations they were all 12-1s, though I would imagine choice words might be used on the clerk who assigned a 2410 to a premium train after the 3410 cars were introduced in any numbers. Visit

for downloadable spreadsheets which give plan numbers, names and some history of thousands of cars.

HTH

Aidrian smokeandsteamATsanDOTrrDOTcom

So why would you need a zero? Is there any reason to know what type accommodation a car does NOT have? The car designations usually start with the most numerous type of accommodation working down to the least numerous, however there are LOTS of exceptions like 8-1-2s or CN's E class sleepers 4-8-4 (4 bedrooms, 8 duplex roomettes, 4 sections).

By that logic: I suppose you also think that the Whyte system for locos should drop the zeros also?

Did I say that? You suppose wrong.

I suggest you go back and re-read Robert Heller's post. The exception is only for the order the accommodations are listed.

Your extension, again not mine. Both of these systems were created separately for their own purposes and are well understood by their users, what point would be served by trying to change one to match the other?

I suggest you read Robert Heller's post. There is no point in my reposting his excellent explanation.

Thanks a lot... I think that's what makes it tough for a non- passenger car modeler. There is a sort of implied understanding needed for the designations, beyond simply the numbers. If nothing else from this thread I learned that a 12-1 (sections, drawing rooms) was probably the most common arrangement. And I can see how -- when there was one primary builder of cars -- there wouldn't be much of a need for a more detailed system.

__________ Mark Mathu The Green Bay Route:

"I started out with nothing and I still have most of it."

How many different types of accommodations did Pullman have?

According to

there are something like 4 basic types:

The original open section type car:

"A common floorplan would have 12 sleeping sections (upper and lower berths, with hallway curtains), one drawing room with its own toilet facilities, a men's dressing room and a women's dressing room."

Later were closed room type cars with combinations of 1, 2, or 3 berths:

"The one-person roomette has a sofa, toilet, and washstand, plus a bed which folds out from the wall. The compartment has a long sofa which converts into a bed, and an overhead, folddown berth, plus the same toilet and washstand facilities as a roomette. The drawing room has a long sofa which coverts into a bed, two chairs, an overhead folddown berth, and a third bed which folds out from the wall; the toilet facilities are located in an adjoining separate area."

Added to this mix were things like the slumbercoaches that where introduced late in Pullman's existance, but they are almost a whole separate type of car altogether.

Pretty much all sleeping cars in North America adhered to the same identifying standard. 12-1s were built by Pullman, Pressed Steel, and others. A 10-2-1,

12-1, 8-2-1, was all the same nomenclature no matter who the builder. This common standard of configuration ID continued into the lightweight, or streamlined rea as well. The cars were arranged differently, but all the manufacturers adhered to the same identification method. A 10-6 was a ten roomette - six bedroom whether it was built by ACF, Budd, or Pullman

Charles Crocker

I see Walthers has a new "28-1" Parlor Car...

Is there a way for a non-passenger car modeler can know if the "28" refers to sections?, drawing rooms?

Parlor cars had nice comfy individual seats and bar service. First class passengers had free access to them, but the ordinary folk were barred. Hollywood often set first encounters between hero and heroine (and villain, etc) in parlor cars. IIRC 28-1 means 28 seats and 1 drawing room or bedroom. Plus of course a small bar/service counter.

HTH