Re: Animation - The Layout

The layout that you saw is owned by a friend of mine.
The movie theatre building is constructed from a plastic model kit built
without the base. It has the walls washed so that it looks like mortar between the bricks and there is even graffiti on the side of the building. The movie screen is a 2-1/2" x 3-3/4" original silver screen which does not fade like a LCD color screen of a small hand-held TV. BTW, This was build in 1980. Yes, it is possible to show a wide screen movie. You can also hear the sound of the movie coming from the front doors.
The movie is a full length movie of any choice you may have. It was on display at the NMRA convention in Colorado Springs, CO at or about 1980. The marque has a chase set of lights that flow from the top to the bottom and the name of the movie appears with a lighted background.
Next to the hotel across the street is the Glass Hole bar. This building was also a plastic model built without the base. The inside has 2 window boxes in which one has a "Coors" neon sign in it and the other has the bar name "Glass Hole" which only has the "ass" in Glass lit up by the neon. The sign is broken. These signs flash on and off.
There are several sets of auto traffic street lights with the overhead boom, much like the ones you see in major cities. These lights change from red to green, then yellow and back to red. On the major two lane road, there are two overhead signals (street name is Sex Drive) with a left turn arrow. All upright posts have another two signal heads on them too. All of this was hand built and even the brake lights come on when the lights turn yellow as the cars approach the intersection. In the other direction, the brake lights go out as the lights turn green.
There is a tall building tower with a chase sign 1that travels around the top like that at the Stock Exchange in NY. The message on the chase sign can be changed to whatever message you might want.
Most of the box cars have a connector where a miniature flashing red light lantern can be attached. This is the replacement to the caboose in train traffic now days.
Yes there is an airport off to the end of the layout. This is a small airport, however it does have all the runway lights and even a control tower where the blue and white lights rotate. The blue and white lights were used as it is a military airport. Also the Flight-for-Life helicopter is kept there. This helicopter is hand carved from a 1" rod of plastic and the upper blade spins slowly with the use of magnets. The runners of the helicopter are attached to the marker LED leads which light up while it sets on the layout.
City Hall has an elaborate side of the building lit and can be easily set up for a Christmas lighting scene.
An auto dealership has the parking lot lit up with a number of grain of rice bulbs. There is also a ball field that will work as either football or baseball that is lit with a number of white LEDs
Blue and red LEDs are used on the light bars on the fire and police cars that are operating throughout the layout. (One where the police has stopped a car, some fire trucks and police cars are at a burning house where smoke is coming out of the house and the firemen are using water to put the fire out.)
Church bells ring every hour at the church. The power wires that are strung from pole to pole for the city street lights carry live power. There is a number of buildings that have building signs which was made using plastic cast molds and small lights, like McDonalds and Taco Bell. Some of the houses and apartments have the flashing blue TV screens on as the residents watch TV. Water in the small river appears to be moving. It uses layered plastic and LEDs. Towers and tall buildings have a flashing red light on top for the warning light for planes. When the room lights go down, stars appear in the sky, headlights on all cars come on and the various business have their outside lights come on too. Crossing signals work at each marked rail crossing that has lighted signals. The parking ticket police have their vehicle with a yellow light flashing while issuing a parking ticket. In the mountains, there is a snow plow that has blue flashing lights on it. There isn't much animation in attaching an airplane to a wire and the wire to a boy that would be mounted on a motor to make it look like he is flying a model air plane. The windmill was about the same, however the windmill use would be more effective if it were in the country. This was also a simple motor attached to the fan of a windmill through the shaft that goes up through the layout..
There is a number of other projects that are half started that is currently being worked on. There has been written documentation of how these all work.
The company that makes building signs uses a plastic mold that is cast over small bulbs. Generic signs are more available, like HOTEL and MOTEL. The building signs used by my friend are custom made for my friends layout and not something that is generic. The fluorescent signs that they make are similar to the12V buss type bulbs you can buy at an electronics shop, except Radio Shack. Their animation of moving lights involve the appearance of two or three holes in the sign with a bulb behind to light it up on a strobe. None of this is new as I worked with a friend who actually built a switch that would switch 3 amps of power with the use of a 1 microvolt signal in 1962, much like transistors do today.
True model railroading involves a lot of animation. Putting some track together and running a train around the track without any animation is no more than toy trains, much like the father who wanted a train set for his son for Christmas. All he really wanted to do was run a train around the Christmas tree. Of course when his son gets older, his son can put together the track, set a few pre-built buildings on the floor and play toy trains too.
The word "model" in model railroading means to re-create in a smaller or similar to life-like manor. There is nothing life-like about a piece of plastic that can not simulate the operation of something. Even three rail track has not got a life-like example.
--

Re: Animation

Group: rec.models.railroad Date: Sat, Feb 14, 2004, 4:04pm From:
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Rusty Richards wrote:
> The layout that you saw is owned by a friend of mine.
After reading this post, I have to ask; are there any trains on this "layout"?
> The movie theatre building is constructed from a plastic model kit > built without the base. It has the walls washed so that it looks like > mortar between the bricks and there is even graffiti on the side of > the building. The movie screen is a 2-1/2" x 3-3/4" original silver > screen which does not fade like a LCD color screen of a small > hand-held TV. BTW, This was build in 1980. Yes, it is possible to > show a wide screen movie. You can also hear the sound of the movie > coming from the front doors. > > The movie is a full length movie of any choice you may have. It was > on display at the NMRA convention in Colorado Springs, CO at or about > 1980. The marque has a chase set of lights that flow from the top to > the bottom and the name of the movie appears with a lighted > background. > > Next to the hotel across the street is the Glass Hole bar. This > building was also a plastic model built without the base. The inside > has 2 window boxes in which one has a "Coors" neon sign in it and the > other has the bar name "Glass Hole" which only has the "ass" in > Glass lit up by the neon. The sign is broken. These signs flash on > and off. > > > There are several sets of auto traffic street lights with the > overhead boom, much like the ones you see in major cities. These > lights change from red to green, then yellow and back to red. On the > major two lane road, there are two overhead signals (street name is > Sex Drive) with a left turn arrow. All upright posts have another two > signal heads on them too. All of this was hand built and even the > brake lights come on when the lights turn yellow as the cars approach > the intersection. In the other direction, the brake lights go out as > the lights turn green. > > There is a tall building tower with a chase sign 1that travels around > the top like that at the Stock Exchange in NY. The message on the > chase sign can be changed to whatever message you might want. > > Most of the box cars have a connector where a miniature flashing red > light lantern can be attached. This is the replacement to the caboose > in train traffic now days.
Really?
> Yes there is an airport off to the end of the layout. This is a small > airport, however it does have all the runway lights and even a > control tower where the blue and white lights rotate. The blue and > white lights were used as it is a military airport. Also the > Flight-for-Life helicopter is kept there. This helicopter is hand > carved from a 1" rod of plastic and the upper blade spins slowly with > the use of magnets. The runners of the helicopter are attached to > the marker LED leads which light up while it sets on the layout. > > City Hall has an elaborate side of the building lit and can be easily > set up for a Christmas lighting scene. > > An auto dealership has the parking lot lit up with a number of grain > of rice bulbs. There is also a ball field that will work as either > football or baseball that is lit with a number of white LEDs > > Blue and red LEDs are used on the light bars on the fire and police > cars that are operating throughout the layout. (One where the police > has stopped a car, some fire trucks and police cars are at a burning > house where smoke is coming out of the house and the firemen are > using water to put the fire out.) > > Church bells ring every hour at the church. The power wires that are > strung from pole to pole for the city street lights carry live power. > There is a number of buildings that have building signs which was > made using plastic cast molds and small lights, like McDonalds and > Taco Bell. Some of the houses and apartments have the flashing blue > TV screens on as the residents watch TV. Water in the small river > appears to be moving. It uses layered plastic and LEDs. Towers and > tall buildings have a flashing red light on top for the warning light > for planes. When the room lights go down, stars appear in the sky, > headlights on all cars come on and the various business have their > outside lights come on too. Crossing signals work at each marked rail > crossing that has lighted signals. The parking ticket police have > their vehicle with a yellow light flashing while issuing a parking > ticket. In the mountains, there is a snow plow that has blue flashing > lights on it. > > There isn't much animation in attaching an airplane to a wire and the > wire to a boy that would be mounted on a motor to make it look like > he is flying a model air plane. The windmill was about the same, > however the windmill use would be more effective if it were in the > country. This was also a simple motor attached to the fan of a > windmill through the shaft that goes up through the layout.. > > There is a number of other projects that are half started that is > currently being worked on. There has been written documentation of > how these all work. > > The company that makes building signs uses a plastic mold that is > cast over small bulbs. Generic signs are more available, like HOTEL > and MOTEL. The building signs used by my friend are custom made for > my friends layout and not something that is generic. The fluorescent > signs that they make are similar to the12V buss type bulbs you can > buy at an electronics shop, except Radio Shack. Their animation of > moving lights involve the appearance of two or three holes in the > sign with a bulb behind to light it up on a strobe. None of this is > new as I worked with a friend who actually built a switch that would > switch 3 amps of power with the use of a 1 microvolt signal in 1962, > much like transistors do today. > > True model railroading involves a lot of animation. Putting some > track together and running a train around the track without any > animation is no more than toy trains, much like the father who wanted > a train set for his son for Christmas.
What you have described is a toy city with a few trains added as an afterthought, not a model railroad.
> The word "model" in model railroading means to re-create in a smaller > or similar to life-like manor. There is nothing life-like about a > piece of plastic that can not simulate the operation of something. > Even three rail track has not got a life-like example.
Here we go again - it's troll time...
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<chuckle>
The guy describes one part of a layout and you jump in with your usual blather.
But seriously, are you saying that a "real" model railroad can't have a realistic urban scene?
That'll come as quite a shock to a lot of folks. All the classic layouts we drool over have detailed urban areas.
But hey, what do we know?
Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Operating Traffic Lights Crossbucks Special Effects Lighting http://www.ironpeng.com/ipe
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And you do?
Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Operating Traffic Lights Crossbucks Special Effects Lighting http://www.ironpeng.com/ipe
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Mike Tennent wrote:
>> Not much. You don't know when you're being trolled. > > <chuckle> And you do?
I'm getting better at it all the time.
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So when you depict a modern day city, does it have dirt roads for late model cars? Any modeling of a city which is a modern day city should have a traffic light if it is a city that is on the map.
Those cities not yet on the map, usually don't have the population, however the building construction may make it look different.
A modern day city will have bars were there are neon signs that advertise the beer in the window, not some piece of plastic with a molded bulb inside that is supposed to "appear" like a neon sign. Real neon signs are fine strands of glass that glow. A real city will have more indoor movie theatres than outside drive-ins. There are only 4 drive-ins in the major city (500,000 pop) which I live now and 2 of them don't operate in the winter. 35 years ago, there was 60 drive-ins.
A modern day city will have train crossings that work. Block signals that work and even emergency vehicles that have flashing lights that work. A modern day city will have a train that has the last car with a red flashing lantern instead of a caboose. And yes, a modern day city will have a TV on in several different houses.
Sad to say, I went to the GATS this weekend and there was an "N" scale modeler who had a drive-in on a module. It was difficult to understand how the drive-in had all these cars there and you could hear the movie's sound, but there were no speaker posts in the drive-in. Also, the drive-in was not teered so you could see over the vehicles in front of you.
Yes, you can get a post with a traffic signal painted on the top. Or you can build operating traffic lights that work. A five year old kid can put a painted sign up with his train that has plastic track. His is a toy train. How does that compare to your "modeling" if you put up painted signs also?
Animation makes model railroading, model railroading.
Woody
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:15:39 -0700 (MST), snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (Joe "Woody" Woodpecker) purred:

    Sadly, real neon are becoming less and less common as they get more and more expensive. I see a lot of pseudo neons that are just illuminated plastic and those model well. It is difficult to get that hard edged glow neon produces in any other way and i would shudder to imaging the costs of an N scale real neon sign

    Wow, that is a LOT of them. Here in the LA area there aren't that many and we have "drive in weather" year round. Where are you located (BTW: I am a fan of drive in theaters and old diners, so i might like to visit an area with that many)
                                cat
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If you ever make it to the southeast, you could combine two interests.
The Blue Ridge Scenic Railroad http://www.brscenic.com /
is located in Blue Ridge, GA (northeast corner) and has 1 of the 4 outdoor theaters still operating in Georgia. They show a double feature of first run movies for something like $5.00 a car load. It's an interesting community/cultural experience. <g>
Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Operating Traffic Lights Crossbucks Special Effects Lighting http://www.ironpeng.com/ipe
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There aren't many drive-ins left. This article:
"http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/movies/film12.shtml "
claims that there were 5000 nationwide in 1958 and around 500 in 2000. They aren't as popular as they once were.
Is the one in Torrance still there (Torrance Blvd near Prospect, IIRC)? I'd guess it was turned into condo's years ago.
Paul
--
Working the Rockie Road of the G&PX

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"http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/movies/film12.shtml "
I can vouch for that. I grew up not far from Six Flag Great America. There used to be a drive-in about 1 mile east of the Eagle roller coaster (now a light industrial park), one in Grayslake, IL (long gone - 20 years of more). I knew of two in the Milwaukee area, the 41 Twin at 27th & Rawson (an office park now), and one along US 41-45 in Menomonee Falls (gone). The only one I'm aware of in this area (SE WI - Lake Co., IL) that might still be open is the Keno in Kenosha, WI (92nd St. at Hwy 32/Sheridan Rd. - south city limits), but it's been at least 3-4 years since I've been by there.
Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"
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I'm in Denver, CO. There is the 88th Ave DI, the NorthStar, the South twin. As far as indoor movie, to start out with, there is the Westminster Six and a few hundred feet from that is the Westminster Mall Five, that's eleven theatures and there is the Thornton Six and multiple theatures at other locations. If you want to watch a movie in your car, just drop a DVD in your car's built-in DVD player and park the car in your driveway.
So whoever decided to model a drive-in, as a modern day city thing, should put a 'For Sale' sign up and have weeds growing in the parking area in front of the screen. A movie theatre is the way to go and I've seen an 'N' scale one with a true silver screen.
As far as modeling the true neon sign, I have seen it done for under $20. The building the sign was put in was $10. The sign flashes on and off as does the bar name, "Glass Hole" ,however the 'Gl' in 'Glass' does not light up. i think the sign is broken. (good modeling)
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Was it modern? I understand some modern drive-ins use a low-power FM transmitter for the soundtrack. Tune your radio to the frequency and there's your sound...in stereo.

I never saw one of those. Every drive-in I've seen was flat with the bottom of the screen starting 15-20 feet off the ground. Maybe that's common in hillier locales?
Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"
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     snipped-for-privacy@aol.comjkelm (JCunington) writes:

I don't remember the parking lots being tiered. They had a set of concentric humps so that you could pull your car unto the hump and then your car would be tilted up a little so you could look right at the screen.
Paul
--
Working the Rockie Road of the G&PX

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snipped-for-privacy@aol.comjkelm (JCunington) wrote:

That's correct. The one in Georgia I spoke of uses that system. No speaker poles, no driving off with the speaker attached and sheepily turning it in... <g>
Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Operating Traffic Lights Crossbucks Special Effects Lighting http://www.ironpeng.com/ipe
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The former home of the Detroit Loins,The Silver Dome has just installed 3 outdoor screens and is going to add more in the Spring. Dearborn, Michigan is home to the FORD-WYOMING drivein which also has multiple screens.
UNCLE YESTERDAY WAS TODAY IS TOMORROW WILL BE
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Richard P. Kubeck wrote:

Well-girded, no doubt.
--
Steve Caple

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I am not sure when the book will be published or who'll will be the publisher. I do know that I have several chapters already written up which will include:
1. Traffic lights which operate on the automobile roadways and include the brake lights coming on when the lights change.
2. Open neon signs which have no background, just a hanging neon.
3. Operating movie theatre, which uses chase lights on the marque.
4. Emergency lights on fire and police vehicles and the use of fibre optics.
5. Street construction warning lights.
6. Red flashing light at the end of the train which now replaces the caboose. The light is a lantern which can be placed on any car.
7. Television operating inside apartments and houses.
8. Operating chase sign that rotates around the top of a building like that at the NY Stock Exchange.
9. Operating crossing signals that are turned on while the train is down the track, but turn off as it is finished crossing the crossing --- in both directions.
10. Operating block signals which automatically change color from green to red then yellow and back to green -- with or without DCC.
11. Building an operating helicopter that has lit marker lights and a top blade that spins -- not attached to the layout.
12. Build a small airport which has blue taxi way lights, red lights at the end of the runway, green lights at the beginning, lights along side the runway and a chase landing light. Also a tower that has a beacon that has an alternating blue and white light (marine landing) or an alternating green and white light (ground landing) or a flashing red light (stationary obstacle) .
13. Putting lights around an auto dealership parking area.
14. Building a football or baseball stadium, complete with lighting.
15. Putting neon signs in the window of a bar that flash off and on.
16. Building a digital clock tower which has quarterly chimes and a clock on all four walls.
I know that Model Railroader put out a book titled "Realistic Animation, Lighting & Sound" which has several good ideas of attaching a motor to something that will make it move. I am not going to redo these excellent articles.
Almost 1/2 of the book is written, however it has not been edited as of yet.
--

>Bill wrote

>Be sure to let us know when your book is published, Woody!<g>
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Joe"Woody"Woodpecker wrote: I am not sure when the book will be published or who'll will be the publisher. I do know that I have several chapters already written up --------------------------------------------------- Wow! I'm impressed!
Bill Bill's Railroad Empire N Scale Model Railroad: http://www.billsrailroad.net Brief History of N Scale: http://www.billsrailroad.net/history/n-scale Resources: Links to over 700 helpful sites: http://www.billsrailroad.net/bills-favorite-links Bookstore: http://www.billsrailroad.net/bookstore.html
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Many of the chapters are complete in writing. These include: Open Neon Signs (where the sign hangs freely with no background AND it flashes on and off. Not covered by MR's animation book); Building a Movie Theatre; Building Traffic Lights; Buildings Rear Car Flashing Lantern; Neon Signs Hanging In Windows; Airports and Road Construction Flashing Lights & Signs.
All of this is modeled in 'N' Scale where very small items are needed to meet scale life-like animation
There will also be a chapter on realism.
Woody
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     snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (Joe "Woody" Woodpecker) writes:

On analog/DCC reversing loops?
Paul
--
Working the Rockie Road of the G&PX

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