Re: Locomotive reviews



You could always *wait* until after the reviews come out before buying one...
--Dan
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Dan O'Connor" <dan[at]ferrarishields.com> wrote in message

one...
Duh...
That's not the point! The industry is geared to publishing reviews well after the release of the products. That needs to be changed, especially because of such limited runs the manufacturers produce. They literally lock you into a purchase without knowing very much about what they're locking you into!
Look at the videogame industry as an example of how this should be done. And there are a lot fewer products in the model railroad industry that need to be reviewed. The manufacturers need to get their act together and start sending pre-production samples to the magazines for review, and the magazines need to change their policy about only reviewing shipping product.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Frank Eva" <

product.
And the magazines need to start giving *honest* reviews, and not gloss over duds just to protect advertising revenue.
-- Cheers Roger T.
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra / Home of the Great Eastern Railway
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
You are missing something here......... First. The importer doesn't usually get a special air mail shipment of models before the big shipment arrives by boat. Perhaps thay should, but they don't.
The container comes in, it is opened up, inventoried and then models are shipped to the magazines and the distributors.
The distributors get the models and ship them out ASAP. Time is money.
The magazine gets the model and gives it to someone to write the review. Sometimes it is an in house person writing the review, sometimes tha model has to be shipped to Joe Doakes in West Whatever, Montana. All this takes time. The reviewer writes his review, and sends it back to the magazine. Sometimes it gets back in time to be put in the next issue, sometimes that issue is already in the can. Time passes.
With all these things going on in parallel, there is a really good chance that the product will be reviewed on the internet before any magazine can get it in print.
The importers certainly want their item reviewed ASAP, but some magazines are more alert to this sort of thing than others.
Hope this helps, John Glaab Peach Creek Shops
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

has
time.
Sometimes
Well Peach, you aren't telling me anything I don't already know. All I'm saying is that there should be a better way to get the word out without making hobbyists commit to buying something sight unseen.

that
it in

Let's not wait for it to be a "chance" event then! Let's see a review of every new locomotive released online instead of waiting for their normal print lead time. I think they could even sell online subscriptions to the website if they did this, and did it at a reasonable price! BTW, by "every new locomotive", I do not mean the next in the F series of Athearn Genesis releases... unless something drastically changed. I mean stuff like the upcoming DCC-ready GP60M in the Athearn Ready-To-Roll line.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

without
I fail to see that anyone is asking you to "commit" to buying sight unseen. You can wait for the model to come out, view it at your local train shop and make your decision accordingly.
Regarding the reviews in the magazines as being useful to the modeler. Not always. A recent steam loco was recently brought in that lacked a detail so significant that the prototype could not run without it! Not one of the reviewers caught it. This was not some tiny little valve.
Magazine reviews are "first look" reviews. They do not and cannot really tell how the loco is going to perform. Example. Rivarossi's first run of Alleghenys had traction tires. They were a maintencance problem (they broke). but no reviewer mentioned anything about that not did anyone make an editotial comment when Rivarossi decided not to put traction tires on the later run of Alleghenys.
My advice. Do not place any credence in reviews of pre-production modle. Someone pointed this out in a previous message. Put only a small amout of faith in in reviews of current production models. Reviewers are human and often under pressure to say something nice and do it quickly.
Check the model out at your local shop and make your own decision.
Best Regards,
John Glaab Peach Creek Shops
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 09 Aug 2003 20:38:01 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (PEACHCREEK) wrote:

British Bachmann have been showing the British magazines their pre-production models and getting feedback which has been incorporated into the production models - starting with the raw mouldings.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
PEACHCREEK wrote:

Some of us are not lucky enough to have a local train shop.

Odd review details like "skew wound motor", "flywheel", "single axle drive", it's a dog" etc can give us information that even viewing the model "in the flesh" doesn't impart.

Build me a local model shop!
Regards, Greg.P.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Virtually every product of any consequence is reviewed - sometimes by dozens of people - on line the minute someone gets their hands on one. No need to wait for the magazines. Of course some people don't trust the internet. Someone might say something negative about the Product Of The Year. But if you are reasonably capable of sorting out what is said on line, qualified to your own wants and needs, you should have enough information to make a decision.
Then again, by the time someone is receiving product at retail, it may be too late to make a decision. A little battle I wrestle with day in, day out.
Andy ----------------------------------------------------------- http://www.duckcreek.org - Pre-Interstate Urban Archaeology -----------------------------------------------------------
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read your first paragraph. Only the magazines have the influence to get the word out before a limited run is gone. Waiting until folks who have pre-ordered get their locomotive could very well mean that they will never be able to buy even if they decide they want to. So, this is a double-edged sword. We really have a problem with both the manufacturers and the magazines, but the long and the short of it is that the magazines should have a lot more clout and could get something done here, if they saw the need and realized that they were losing money by doing nothing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Whenever I have asked a question regarding a new locomotive, especially in regard to DCC upgrades, I get no replies, probably because there aren't enough folks here that run new locomotives in digital. Also, I find that most folks don't have the time/desire to write a "review" and post it here.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Frank Eva wrote:

I've got two new locos in transit and I'll be quite happy to write reviews (except fully for the DCC bit) Who is going to want to hear about a Trix (Marklin 2 rail) Wrttemberg K (2-12-0) and a Brawa (same stable as Lifelike) Wrttemberg Fc (0-6-0)?
While I consider that I set/judge a fairly high standard, I have little idea how these might compare to the latest US Diesel loco products.
Regards, Greg.P.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You don't seem to like it, but the group *has* come to a consensus: No, it isn't possible.
If a magazine want's to review actual production models, they have to wait until the actual production models are available. After that, you have publishing lead times to deal with, and the review shows up well after the models have hit the street.
One thing we haven't touched upon, is that even if there was some magical way to get manufacturers to sit on their inventory for four months before releasing them to the public, this does nothing to solve the problem of the trend toward advance-purchase limited runs, where you have to reserve your locos months before the molds are even finished...
--Dan
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Obviously, if this was going to work right, it would be up to the manufacturers and the magazines to make sure that the reviewed sample was essentially the same as the release. I can't believe that manufacturers can go from a fully functional prototype to a shipping version in a matter of a couple of weeks. So, it would seem to me that this would be possible, and because it didn't work once in the past is no reason to think it could never work.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

models and getting feedback which has been incorporated into the production models - starting with the raw mouldings. I wonder why they can do stuff like this over in the UK but not in the USA???
I can give you a few good reasons. Reasons that have been provided to me by people who make the decisions for the companies that import the models.
1) The US market is much larger and more competative. If a magazine gets a pre production model early in the development cycle and reviews it, either in print or among the members of their internal staff, the word can get out to a competitor. Even a few photos of a pre production model can be enough to allow a competitor to copy the project and rush a competing model to market. This is especially true if the competitor already has his model in development. Wouldn't Lionel love to have a look ath Athearns planned Challenger? Wouldn'y Athearn love to have a look at Lionel's?
2) American importers have their own private "experts" on projects. These guys do the dog work research and keep their mouths shut. There may be mistakes from time to time, but the secrecty aspect is preferable to the possible unwanted competition.
3) I cannot comment on how effective the European magazine assistance is to the manufacturer, but I can tell you that most of the American magazines today are staffed by people who know diesels far better than steam. How effective would they be in reviewing a steam project?
4) The American magazines have to be very careful in providing assistance to manufacturers. Remember that other manufacturers advertise in their magazines too, so if one f gets preferential treatment, or is suspected of getting preferential treatment, that can translate into lost advertising revenue. Sound petty? You don't believe it? It's already happened.
Keep one thing in mind, if you forget everything else. This is a business. The object is to make money.
The object is not to make the most accurate, or most democratically approved model, but to make a model that will satisfy a large number of customers and that can be produced and sold at an acceptable price.
John Glaab
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

There are two kinds of r&d - the model itself, and researching the market which is part of marketing. Knowing the customer. Most manufacturers don't really do this, they just react to perceived demand, or better yet just copy someone else's success - or potential success, since manufacturers often have a duplicate product in the works before the original is even seen.

Yeah, if you run to the demand and price to the run, technically there is no way you can lose. But only if the product continues to live up to expectations. Burn people a few times and the pre-orders will dwindle big time.
Andy
----------------------------------------------------------- http://www.duckcreek.org - Pre-Interstate Urban Archaeology -----------------------------------------------------------
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Or it could be all the time in the world. We've seen products being shown as test shots, even some painted and complete, that were 3 years away from retail availability.
Basically the magazines do get an advance copy of the product, almost all the time, but it's usually production product and not test shots - or early pre-production but more or less made with production components. A cobbled product is not going to yield an accurate review, since it's not what the consumer will end up buying. And a pre-production/early production sample isn't available until production starts. And as we've seen sometimes the product comes ashore ahead of the typical publishing lead time. Overall I think it's the goal of both manufacturer and publisher to have a product review (or even better, a feature articule using it) the same month a new product comes out, but the number of uncontrolled variables makes it a rare occurrence.
Andy ----------------------------------------------------------- http://www.duckcreek.org - Pre-Interstate Urban Archaeology -----------------------------------------------------------
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I agree, but would add that they need to work at it to make it . . . less rare!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in message

The full page spreads are adveritising. The marketing mix includes product, price, distribution, and promotion. Advertising is a component of marketing.
The purpose of advertising is to try and covince a buyer to purchase a product. Marketing includes trying to determine what a customer wants or needs and finding a way to profitably meet that demand.
CBix
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I'm asking that magazines be responsible for obtaining product as soon as possible before it's released - plain and simple.
How do you propose that the magazine does this? The magazine is going to get what the manufacturer gives them. The magazine cannot demand they get a model!
Let's hold the magazines' corporate feet to the fire and tell them what we want. I havealready done this, but my one voice hasn't had any effect.
And it won't.
(I've refused to renew every magazine I subscribed to)
Doesn't this effectively eliminate you from the marketplace? How do you know what is coming out? So if you don't know what is coming out haw can you complain about it not being reviewed promptly?
I don't believe hobbyists should have to pay up-front for merchandize they know almost nothing about,
I agree. Who says you have to pay up front? We take orders for models and the customer pays when he picks it up. (This does not apply to brass) Risky? Not really. Virtually EVERY new locomotive sells out so we rarely get stuck with a few models that are slow to leave the store.
and they should not have to rely on a local hobby shop that knows no more than they do about the product,
Now you are getting to the heart of the matter! You aren't getting good support from your hobby shop so to compensate for this you w3ant the magazines to pick up the slack! Right?
or has the model sequestered away behind a glass door, or worse yet, has no inventory beyond their own pre-orders.
Again, you are not getting good support from the hobby shop.
I recognize your frustration. A hobby shop that cannot, or does not, choose to provide service gives you few options, unfortunately trying to get the magazines to provide real time reviews is simply unrealistic.
We spend a lot of time on the phone talking to customers about the nature of new products. we don't know everything, but we do have a knowledgable staff and we try to help. There are other shops like us around the country. Do a little on line searching, make some phone calls and develop a raport with a shop that suppoorts your particular interests. In the long run it will be more use to you than 1000 magazine product reviews.
Best Regards,
John Glaab Peach Creek Shops
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.