To all newbies!

RE: "how to hold basic tools is shocking" - as someone who built MANY models as a kid, and went on to build plenty of custom trains, this is exactly WHY, when I have a "home project", and my four year old boy asks to help, he DOES. The other day I was assembling a stereo stand, and he asked to use the screwdriver to put a screw in. I was happy to hand it over.
In a society which merits laziness, remote controls, television "everything", and a "throw away consumer ethic", it's no wonder kids can't/don't do anything, and aren't interested. Why mow your own lawn when you can pay someone to do it? Why change your oil when someone else can do it? Why spend $75 and an hour of your time to fix your dryer when you can spend $200 on a repairman, or buy a new one?
Not my kid - he's gonna learn basic skills.
Chris
STEAM GENE wrote:
Reply to
Chris Munson
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: : It's unfortunate, but kids today don't seem to build models anymore. My : club helps Boy Scouts out with the Railroading Merit Badge and the : inability to understand even easy instructions or how to hold basic tools : is shocking. Watching one try to assemble an Athearn 40 foot boxcar can : be a real learning experience. :
The U.S. is fast becoming a service economy where the only "manufacturing" jobs will be flipping burgers; e.g.:
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(Border) Patrol uniforms 'made in Mexico'
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Forbes.com: FEATURE-China-made coffins pose threat to U.S. casket makers
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Yahoo! News - Trade Official: China Car Imports by 2010
The good news is that the government is starting to stress the trades as careers:
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ETA News Release: Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao Announces Skilled Trades Initiative: Labor Department, Industry and Union Leaders to Address Worker Shortages by Promoting Skilled Trades Careers [04/06/2004]
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WorldNetDaily: Bye-bye engineering, hello massage therapy
Last week, Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao announced her Skills to Build America's Future" initiative. This is a "nationwide outreach and education effort designed to attract young people and transitioning workers to" the "key" occupations of the [near] future: "skilled trades."
This initiative, understandably, was proclaimed with little fanfare. While President Bush looks toward Mars, Ms. Chao can hardly be proud of her decidedly pedestrian prophecy that "construction laborers, operating engineers, carpenters, iron workers, cement masons, bricklayers, truck drivers and many other construction related crafts are among the trades expected to see the greatest demand in workers over the next 6 years..."
--Jerry Leslie Note: snipped-for-privacy@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email
Reply to
leslie
Many parents won't let their kids "help", afraid they'll hurt themselves, or simply too impatient to wait for the kid to figure out what the, er, "helpful hints" from the parent actually mean. :-) Etc. And many, many more don't know how to assemble those "easy-to-assemble" book cases themeselves, so how can they teach their kids? And all these factors operated in the past, too. IOW, modelbuilding has always been a minority sport. I certainly can't remember us modelbuilders to have been a majority when I was in school.
I suspect that Steam Gene would have been just as shocked a generation or two ago.
HTH
Reply to
Wolf Kirchmeir
"the inability to understand even easy instructions or how to hold basic tools is shocking."
I'm a science technician at a major university, and your comment is equally true of our entering college freshmen. Many, literally, cannot use a screwdriver. They lack the basic motor skills necessary to hold and rotate an item with even the least precision. Similar can be said for use of a hammer or pliers. It's also VERY difficult for them to learn such skills as young adults. The necessary neural connections apparently just are not there.
Such things MUST be learned at the appropriate stage of physical development ... meaning EARLY in their lives. By the time they get to college, and are expected to be able to DO something, it's too late. Some success can be had in what is essentially 'rehabilitation', but the effort, and time, required to make any real improvement is far out of proportion to the gain. some will make the effort, most will not.
A lack of spatial perception may also be at work, especially in comprehending the instructions and relating them to the actual items. It's VERY sad to see such a deterioration, even it the 'brighter' portion of the population.
Dan Mitchell ==========
Reply to
Daniel A. Mitchell
'Tis better to hurt yourself in small ways, with small tools, and thus learn how to avoid such things, then wait until you can kill yourself with large tools!
When I have a college student who has demonstrated an inabilty to use a screwdriver or soldering iron, should I let them run a large lathe or milling machine? I think NOT! We only have a few such machines, they are delicate and expensive, and our buget will not permit replacing them often. We also have LOTS of students, but I'd still prefer not to lose any, or substantial pieces thereof.
Dan Mitchell ==========
Reply to
Daniel A. Mitchell
My responses are not directed towards YOU in particular (unless noted), I am just commenting accordingly:
RE: Many parents won't let their kids "help", afraid they'll hurt themselves
children realize that they OFTEN hurt themselves just by being careless, and end up learning by their own example. Now, I suppose that in the eyes of many I would be foolish or irresponsible, because I supervised my child while handling a screwdriver? Moreover, he held the top of it and turned it while I carefully supported the metal shaft? Oh, man, that's just terrible!! You'd think I asked him to pour gas in the lawnmower...
RE: or simply too impatient to wait for the kid to figure out what the, er, "helpful hints" from the parent actually mean. :-) Etc.
"bothered" by their children as they grow and learn, since they are more concerned about themselves. Good luck when the kid gets to be 12 years old, and doesn't come home at night....
RE: And many, many more don't know how to assemble those "easy-to-assemble" book cases themeselves, so how can they teach their kids?
aptitude-wise, some people easily adapt skills, some don't. My kid regularly disassembles and reassembles "Transformers" toys, and I am simply amazed at his dexterity and spatial recognition. To boot, he figures out a lot of it himself! I feel pity for people who can't wield a simple screwdriver, and read 3rd-grade level instructions to assemble a piece of furniture.
RE: IOW, modelbuilding has always been a minority sport. I certainly can't remember us modelbuilders to have been a majority when I was in school.
"modelbuilders" than you were aware of, since you obviously did not know "everyone". Certainly, I don't know your age, but growing up in the 60's, the toy industry catered heavily to boys who in general were drawn to propelled rockets, model train sets, plastic models of cars/airplanes/war machines, etc. Nowadays, I think kids are more milk-fed on dozens of channels of ready-made entertainment, and cannot assume the creative spirit that we were afforded, given time and room to roam. Nowadays, you must park your kid in front of the TV and protect them, because you can't release them into the unknown world of freaks and morons who will prey on him/her. Sheesh, as kids, every day was a day of exploration, bike-riding, tree-climbing, model making, and ball playing, much of it outside the house.
Anyways, that's how I see it, YMMV. I still stick that people are lazy in general, and kids are being taught to do the same thing. Why build a model of a Lord of the Rings figure and spend hours of creative painting on it, when you can buy a Chinese made unit prepackaged at Wal-Mart for $6.88?
Chris
Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
Reply to
Chris Munson
: Thanks for sharing these very informative articles. :
You're welcome.
Here's some sites that carry new articles on job destruction in the U.S.:
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CWA Local 4250 - Fight Back
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The Organization for the Rights of American Workers
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GOInstitute.org - A peer-to-peer exchange for Outsourcing Professionals.
The Economic Policy Institute recently released its guide on the offshoring issue:
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Offshoring Issue Guide
which includes a FAQ:
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Offshoring Issue Guide--Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)
This hobby depends on a viable middle class:
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Scrooge & Marley, Inc. -- The True Conservative Agenda
"..There is nothing "normal" about a nation having a middle class, even though it is vital to the survival of democracy..."
--Jerry Leslie Note: snipped-for-privacy@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email
Reply to
leslie
I'm not panicking. It'll probably be another 'Yugo'. Canadians found the way to a reliable Yugo: rip out the electrics and replace it all with Delco/Remy, Ford, or Mopar parts.
Jay Americans have the best legislature money can buy. Unfortunately it's corporate money.
Reply to
JCunington
: >
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> Yahoo! News - Trade Official: China Car Imports by 2010 : : I'm not panicking. It'll probably be another 'Yugo'. :
Or a Buick or a Cadillac:
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General Motors Officially Launches Cadillac Brand in China
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June-09-04-p1.htm General Motors Officially Launches Cadillac Brand in China
"General Motors Officially Launches Cadillac Brand in China Will Redefine Luxury Segment in World's Fastest-Growing Market
Beijing, China - During a ceremony at Beijing's Imperial Ancestors' Temple, a symbol of ancient China, General Motors officially launched Cadillac, its premium luxury brand for modern China.
Three new Cadillac models that will be sold in China - the CTS, SRX and XLR - were unveiled at the ceremony. All three products embody Cadillac's distinctive bold design, purposeful innovation and balanced performance.
The high-performance, rear-wheel-drive Cadillac CTS luxury sedan will enter the China market this fall. The Cadillac SRX, which features the comfort of a luxury sport sedan combined with the versatility of a sport-utility vehicle, will enter the market later this year. The Cadillac XLR, the brand's flagship luxury roadster, will be available in China in early 2005.
All three models will start as imports from GM's North American Operations. They will be built at the company's Grand River manufacturing facility in Lansing, Michigan, and at its facility in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Both the CTS and SRX will be assembled soon thereafter at Shanghai General Motors Company Limited (Shanghai GM), making the joint venture of GM and Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation Group (SAIC) the only facility outside the United States to produce Cadillacs. GM will collaborate with Shanghai GM to market and distribute Cadillac vehicles in China.
[snip]
Shanghai GM is a 50-50 joint venture that produces and markets vehicles, engines and transmissions. Established in 1997, it currently manufactures the Buick Regal upper-medium sedan, Buick Excelle lower-medium sedan, Buick Sail small car and Buick GL8 executive wagon. Shanghai GM has adopted many of GM's advanced manufacturing systems and processes such as the Global Manufacturing System. Its products have been certified equal in terms of quality to those built by GM facilities elsewhere around the world.
Earlier today, GM and SAIC announced that Shanghai GM would increase its annual production capacity from 200,000 vehicles to 450,000 vehicles to support its aggressive new product plans, including the introduction of Cadillac. The expanded facility is expected to begin operation in 2005. GM and SAIC also announced their intention to expand Shanghai GM's engine plant.
(June 7, 2004)"
--Jerry Leslie Note: snipped-for-privacy@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email
Reply to
leslie
Gene, When I was little I remember my grandfather who was a farmer and a machinist often having discussions about the "kids today" not knowing how to use tools, write letters, work with theirs hands and so on and that all they could do is talk on the phone, and sit by the radio. Don't worry though ........things have changed but people are still the same and the younger generations already started going all to hell about 8 or 9 thousand years ago. Bruce
Reply to
Bruce Favinger
```````` Ok, ok, I voted -- "2-5 years ago". But that gives the wrong impression. In the past 2-5 years I moved to a new home, lost my job, money problems, health problems, became disabled, etc., etc. Now I'm in the basement prep stages for the layout, now that I've gotten some help with the physical things I can't do myself. During all this, all the kits were/are packed away from the move, plus for a good deal of the time I was physically unable to build a kit, ANY kit.
In the normal course of things I would have been building at least a couple a month - and after I get to a certain point in the future I definitely will be doing that again. I haven't built any in the more recent past because anything longer than a 40 footer won't fit back in the box once you put on couplers. I have to repack them after I build them because I have nowhere to put built up cars yet.
So I don't want my answer to give the appearance that I really don't care that much about the blue boxes 'cause I haven't built one recently or regularly.
So can I be excused...?
Paul - "The CB&Q Guy" (Modeling HO in the 1960's.)
Reply to
Paul K - The CB&Q Guy
...which again is why I readily invite my 4 year old to participate and learn how to do basic things. My kid isn't going to "suffer the consequence" of doing nothing but watching TV. You proved my point - how sad to see these inabilities in young adults!!
Chris .
Reply to
Chris
More astounding are the kids that don't even know what the tools are for. If it were not for my grandfather ... well lets just say I'm grateful he was there (not that my parents were bad people but, they really fell into the "we create, they build" view of the world).
Fortunately, it's not impossible.
Paul
Reply to
Paul Newhouse
Obviously our experiences differ - most of the modellers I associate with prefer the high-end kits. They are not neccessarily rivet counters, but they are simply no longer challenged by BB kits.
In all fairness, most of the BB kits are crude and inaccurate by comparison with contemporary shake-the-box kits.
Reply to
Mark Newton
You wanna know a few good ways to fight back? Look at the labels on what you buy and make an economic decision when you buy - try to buy American when you can. Why? Because the job you save may be your neighbors - or your own.
Professionals.
Reply to
Bob
I just ordered a new Hewlett-Packard laptop - and the FedEx tracking info showed it left the ramp at Shanghai . . .
and is on the way via Anchorage to Indianapolis to Sacramento.
Reply to
Steve Caple
: You wanna know a few good ways to fight back? Look at the labels on what : you buy and make an economic decision when you buy - try to buy American : when you can. Why? Because the job you save may be your neighbors - or : your own. :
Most people cannot afford the luxury of buying American; e.g. check out the cost of slacks from this site:
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Bills Khakis: Khaki Pants, Men's Pants
If people *REALLY* want to fight back, they need to form another political party that focuses on the working class.
--Jerry Leslie Note: snipped-for-privacy@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email
Reply to
leslie
Vote Libertarian! Get the Government out of your pants!
Don't bother to reply via email...I've been JoeJobbed.
Reply to
Jeff Sc.

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