Toggle switch for turnout machines

Hi! I installed a lexan control panel on hinges attachedto the side of my 4 x 8 layout. I plan to put racing stripe tape onto the panel, using
the exact configuration of the actual track layout. And, wherever there is a turnout on the layout, I would like to drill a hole in the corresponding location on the control panel and install a toggle switch. That part is easy!
I went to home Depot to buy toggle switches, need (5), and I had no clue as to whether I wanted, DPDT, SPST, center-off or no center-off! Neither did the chap there, who knew nothing about model railroading. (even though I explained slowly, in detail, what the toggle would have to do...
QUESTION 1:> Would the make of the turnout machine have any bearing on the type of toggle switch?
QUESTION 2:> If yes, what would you recommend for a turnout machine and what kind of toggle switch would I use for it.
Finances being what they are, I would have to buy (1) or (2) turnout machine per month. Is Tortoise a pretty good bet? Many, many thanks for all the help I've been getting from everybody! This is the best thing since sliced bread! Hmmm, I wonder what was best before sliced bread?
Mike Picture Rocks, AZ
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Question 1: Yes it has a great deal to do with the control system.
Question 2: I have used Tortoise motors for several years now. I will not use any other motor unless forced at gun point. Even then I would not be happy.
Tortoise are very good motors. They are easy to install and cost about the same, but with less hassles. I would not recommend HD for the type of switch you are looking for, but if you do go to HD,make sure that they have miniature or sub mini toggles. Personally, I use those from Radio Shack.
FOR TORTOISE and other STALL MOTORS ONLY!!!!!! You will need to wire a DPDT toggle as a reversing switch. That is the diagnally opposite poles wired together and the motor wires on the middle two poles.
FOR SNAP MOTORS If you are going to use a 'snap' motor, you will need a momentary device, either a toggle or a push button. If you leave power to a snap motor on too long, you can burn out the coil windings. If you use a snap motor, I would recommend that you use the radio shack normally open push button. Use one for each direction of the motor.
If you need clarification on any thing, let us know.

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On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:54:58 -0400, Frank Rosenbaum wrote:

I don't know a lot about model railroading, but why are you using DPDT's and wiring the lugs together? I am obviously missing something, but was wondering what. I was going to recommend SPDT, Center off, but thought I must have missed something. -dw
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The DC motor type switch machines like the Tortise need to have power applied so that the polarity of the power is reversed when the switch is trown the other way. Thus the need for a DPDT switch with the wipers going to the machine and the outer contacts setup so that when you reverse the switch, the DC power is reversed to the switch machine. This means that you wire the left on one side of the switch to the right of the other side of the switch. The end result looks like an X from the four corners of the switch and this X is connected to the power supply.
-- Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole?
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On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:43:59 -0700, Bob May wrote:

TY all who responded. I get it now. -- dw
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You can use SPDT for stall motor machines. But you need a +12v/-12v power supply. Or whatever voltage you like. One of my friends uses 6 volts, he likes the slow action.
I must admit that had I not had a plethora of twin coils on hand from a previous layout I would have switched to Tortoise. BTW, you can use a rotary switch for twin coil machines too.
Use a 4 position/as-many-poles-as-you-like rotary. Use positions 1 and 4 to light up an LED on your panel to show direction, and wire positions 2 and 3 as passing contact. Admittedly you will also need one of two things as well. Either a capacitor discharge power supply to prevent a switch machine stir-fry because someone left the rotary selector on positions 2 or 3, or alternatively a very rigorous training program for your panel operators, with an appropriate incentive system. I recommend whips.
Steve Newcastle NSW Aust
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wrote: 2000

My old twin coils had auxiliary contacts on them. I found that I could use the contacts to power the coils. The contacts would open and disconnect the coil from the power source (SPDT).
--
ernie fisch


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wrote:

The wiring is crossed over so as to reverse the polarity to the output. If you have a bipolar power supply you can just switch between the two polarities. I use DPDT's with a bipolar power supply in anticipation of someday using the other set of poles to set logic circuits for a signalling system.
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In a message on Sun, 05 Jun 2005 14:43:35 -0400, wrote :
I&R> On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:54:58 -0400, Frank Rosenbaum wrote: I&R> I&R> > Question 1: Yes it has a great deal to do with the control system. I&R> > I&R> > Question 2: I have used Tortoise motors for several years now. I will not I&R> > use any other motor unless forced at gun point. Even then I would not be I&R> > happy. I&R> > I&R> > Tortoise are very good motors. They are easy to install and cost about the I&R> > same, but with less hassles. I would not recommend HD for the type of switch I&R> > you are looking for, but I&R> > if you do go to HD,make sure that they have miniature or sub mini toggles. I&R> > Personally, I use those from Radio Shack. I&R> > I&R> > FOR TORTOISE and other STALL MOTORS ONLY!!!!!! I&R> > You will need to wire a DPDT toggle as a reversing switch. That is the I&R> > diagnally opposite poles wired together and the motor wires on the middle I&R> > two poles. I&R> I&R> I don't know a lot about model railroading, but why are you using DPDT's I&R> and wiring the lugs together? I am obviously missing something, but was I&R> wondering what. I was going to recommend SPDT, Center off, but thought I I&R> must have missed something.
Frank R. is assuming a single polarity power source (typically most common). Stall motor switch machines (Tortoise and the like) have two power terminals, call them A and B. Wire A to + and B to - and the machine turns to one direction (might set the turnout to the 'main' route position). Wire A to - and B to + and the machine turns to the other direction (might set the turnout to the 'divergent route position).
If you have a dual polarity power source (with +12 AND -12 relative to a common (ground)), you can use a SPDT (center off is meaningless with stall motor switch machines). With this you would wire the B terming to ground, the A terminal to the 'common' of the SPDT switch, and the +12 and -12 to each of the outer terminals on the switch.
A dual polarity power source is more costly / complicated, you would need to run an additional power wire to the control panel. OTOH, you can reduce the number of wires from the control panel to the switch machines, since one will be common to all switch machines.
It is also possible to have lots of fun with pull-up resistors as well: wire the two terminals of the switch machine to the *outer* terminals of the SPDT switch. Wire the *middle* (common) terminal to ground and wire a pull-up resistor from each outer terminal to the +12 supply.
A *momentary* SPDT, Center off is what you would use for twin-coil switch machines. Continuously powering twin-coil switch machines will burn them out (literally). Twin-coil switch machines work even better with a capacitor discharge circuit (Google for "twin-coil switch machine capacitor discharge circuit" and you will get many useful responses). Some capacitor discharge circuits use 'edge triggered' logic inputs -- for these, a non-momentary SPDT switch can probably be used, but generally, you always want a momentary type switch with twin-coil switch machines, whether you use capacitor discharge circuits or not.
Center off has no meaning for stall motor switch machines, since there is no reason to power these switch machines off.
I&R> -dw I&R> I&R>
\/ Robert Heller ||InterNet: snipped-for-privacy@cs.umass.edu http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || snipped-for-privacy@deepsoft.com http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153
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The Tortoise Comes with very good instructions for diferant types of wiring. I prefer the SPDT switch with a dedicated transformer and two diodes. Very simple two wires from the diodes to your controle pannel and one common to each Tortoise. One wire from each switch to its Tortoise. Inline bicolored LEDs for indicators and you are all set.
Frank Rosenbaum wrote:

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wrote: 2000

If you want to operate the same switch from two different locations the single power supply/DPDT toggle is the way to fly. Yes, there really are times when you want to do this.
--
ernie fisch


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For scecondary location needs a DPDT switch You can still use the SPDT on your control pannel.
Ernie Fisch wrote:

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Frank Rosenbaum wrote:

Snap motors (twin coil machines) are hard on the push button switches. I would buy a few spares for replacements when you go to radio shack, so that you will have replacement buttons that match the originals should one fail after a few years.
David Starr
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says...

Or build the "Switch Witch" - do a Google.
--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

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Some information on switch machine controls.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/CircuitIndex.html#Switch
Rob.
----------------
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

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One more point for the stall motor / Tortoise types. Have a center off on the switch as a 'service' position. This will remove power from the motor (and signals or indicators) so you can fix things. Some people forget about things like that.
--
-ken cameron
Syracuse Model Railroad Club http://www.syrmodelrr.org /
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In a message on Tue, 07 Jun 2005 02:56:06 GMT, wrote :
"C> One more point for the stall motor / Tortoise types. Have a center off on "C> the switch as "C> a 'service' position. This will remove power from the motor (and signals or "C> indicators) "C> so you can fix things. Some people forget about things like that.
It is also better to remove ALL power from the layout when servicing it -- one cannot predict where one might place one's pliers or screwdriver (across the rails maybe? Opps...).
"C> "C> -- "C> -ken cameron "C> Syracuse Model Railroad Club http://www.syrmodelrr.org / "C> CNY Model Railroad Club http://www.cnymrrc.com /
"C> "C>
"C> http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153
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