Charging set lightweight 80 Watts

Hi all,
Can anyone please give advice on fine tuning and using this small wartime 4-stroke 12 Volt charging sets.
I have two of these (one made by DK Ltd and one by EP & Co Ltd) to be
used for their original purpose of charging the batteries for Wireless Sets 22 and 62 at a Museum.
Both will now start and run using standardard un-leaded petrol and both seem to run rich.
There is only one adjustment on the top of the carb and that is the needle valve setting screw.
The engine seems to start OK when this screw in open by 1.5 turns from the fully clockwise (closed?) position. Adjusting this screw when the engine is running on load and warm does not really seem to do much - but it simply runs rough (or stops) at either end of the adjustment range. However with the screw in any other position it can be difficult to start afterwards.
My first question is, how to decide where to set this screw for best starting AND best running?
The second question is, which is the best additive to use with the un-leaded petrol to reduce any valve seat erosion etc?
Any advice would be welcome.
Thanks,
Bill
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Lecy Bill,
I have a Stuart Turner version and I am wondering if you have the airfilter set correctly as this acts as the choke also. This has if my memory is correct four positions, Cold start, Warm start, Running and another which I cant remember without going to look. As to using an additive there is no need as your engine was built before leaded was added to fuel.
Martin P

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Hi Martin,
Thanks for the reply.
OK on the air sleeve settings on the air intake.
Yes I am using these correctly in sequence to get the engines to start and run:
choke setting cold start setting hot start setting run setting
On the subject of additives, I assume that these would be desirable for long life of the valve seats on old engines? I thought that lead had been added to petrol from about 1925 and that therefore any WW2 engine would have been designed to run on that type of fuel - hence neat unleaded would be a bit harsh for regular running???
Regards
Bill
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I'm under the general assumption that lead was added in the 50's, none of my engines have an additive and neither does my classic camper. I have had not problems with either as they are not stressed or high revving I personally see no problem.
Martin P

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According to the field handbook the needle valve should only need adjusting for extreme climatic conditions, not very helpful!
Though leaded fuel was indeed available from the mid twenties, AFAIK it was not routinely added until the war (the basic feed stock then available was probably so awful that it was the only way to get the octane rating up to even 'pool' levels!) and it was probably only in the 1950's that engine designers made use of it's lubricating properties to enable them to skimp on material specs. That said, the lightweight charging set is pretty high revving and probably fairly highly stressed for it's type, so although it doesn't need an octane booster, a dose of any of the various 'lead replacements' can't do any harm to stave off valve seat recession if you are going to be giving it some serious work to do.
--
NHH



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was
are
Chapter and verse:-
http://www.morrisminoroc.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sidX
BTW. The Jeep story suggests that 'pool' was infact unleaded.
--

Nick H



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These are generally referred to as "Edgar Westbury 80 watts". Edgar Westbury, working under contract for Stuart Turner, designed these neat little 80 watt 12 volt units in the early years of the Second World War for battery charging in the armed forces. They were soon in production by Douglas Motors, Enfields, Stuart Turners and EEC - probably Electrical Equipment Co, though some believe it to be Economic Electric Co. They were ground breaking units at the time as it was rare indeed to set out to design a small capacity (15cc) high revving (3,500 RPM) four stroke, side valve, all aluminium engine in an age of heavy, slow revving motors. They gave very little trouble in their day and were especially valued for ease of starting and spikeless power output. The latter is due in no small part to the inclusion of a separate ignition generator unconnected with the main alternator.
There are still a few about that have seen virtually no use at all. I've got such a beast, complete with it's canvas cover. The badge on the crankcase that says "ECC 1945" (Enfleld Cycle Company) is still in its yellowing varnish over brass. When I tried to get it running after purchase, it had a depressing lack of ignition electrickery. It is very nicely made and the tiny plug hides inside a fully shielded lead that runs in armour plated magnificence back to the black plastic ignition generator cover. It is a pretty major excavation to get at the points as the carrying frame, the carb, the heat shields and the plug lead all needing to be removed before it is possible to take off the generator cover. After that, it is plain sailing. The points are opened by a rising pin a'la Briggs & Stratton and very often the pin is seized or stiff & might need cleaning. The points are often clagged with storage oil though, but that soon gives way when faced off with 600 grit W&D paper and a blob of spit!
Personally, after so long without running, I like to drip a bit of petrol onto the air filter element to give the direct lift carb a head start - frequently, this is all it takes to make it splutter and run. Without a battery attached, the generator puts out 38 volts. Connecting it to a 12 volt battery induces the nominal voltage to rise from 14 to 17 volts, the revs drop perceptibly and it runs more steadily.
They don't much care for running much below their design speed - probably the direct lift carb can't maintain a decent flow rate at lower revs & it just dies away in sad fashion. I find mine hard to start from hot, probably evaporation in the lift pipe.
As to lead or not to lead, I'd really not worry about it, it isn't as though you are going to run it all day or even every day. If still nervous, add a dash of two stroke oil which will act as UCL too - but not so much as to make it smoke or you'll weaken the mixture.
Regards,
Kim Siddorn
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Don't forget EP - E Pass apparently made the very first production batch. BTW. Has anybody out there actually got an EEC example? Every one which I have seen claiming to be such has proved on closer examination to be ECC - Enfield Cycle Co.
--
NHH




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