A newbie asks......

Ian wrote: [...]

It ain't cheap, and it ain't simple. There is a reason that a) manufacturers don't offer such a system; and b) there isn't much information about it. I used a simple rod and lever arrangement on a small layout, and it was the devil's own business to get it adjusted and to keep it that way. A wire-in-tube system woudl suffer from the same adjustment rpoblems, since it's the mechanism that transfers the wire's motion to the points that needs adjusting. I finally tore it out and used trackside point-levers instead - the second simplest method. the simplest method is to use Peco's switches, and just flip the points with your finger.

Wire-in-tube was relatively cheap back in the days when cars had choke cables: choke cables are wire-in-tubes, right? Back then, mechanical stuff was usually cheaper than electrical or electronic stuff, but now it's the other way round.

Electrical control needn't use clunky switch motors mounted on top of the table. Peco's under-table motors work very well, and are hidden from sight. They are also essentially self-adjusting. There are others. If you use open-top baseboard, the switch + motor can be built on its own section of roadbed, can be adjusted at the workbench, and can be exchanged for a functioning unti if it gives you trouble.

OK, here's how you transfer the wire's motion to the points. You have a vertical shaft that passes through the baseboard next to the track. There is an L-lever at each end. The one above the baseboard has a pin that engages one end of the throwbar that extends beyond the the rest of the sleepers - cut off the other end after you've adjusted everything to your satisfaction. The lever underneath attaches to the end of the wire. As you can imagine, adjusting the relative sizes and positions of the levers so that you don't over-throw the points either way, etc, is not a simple matter. A fellow by the name of Eshleman offered the point-throwing lever assembly over here some years ago. It was relatively easy to adjust. It could of course also be used with an under-table motor. But I haven't seen it offered for quite a while now, which should tell you something.

HTH

You can buy a few N gauge Ratio semaphore signals from hattons.co.uk there are pictures of the packets but none of the item assembled.

Luke

operation.

matter

group has

adjusted and

That is a failing in the implementation and not in the principles of the design / method, unless something changes there should not be any need to 'keep' adjusting the linkage. A properly designed commercial product should be able to operate correctly without constant maintenance.

mechanical

It's still cheap, and I can't remember any article back in the late '60 on suggesting the use of car choke cables [1], most people seemed to use either small bore metal or nylon tube and piano wire. Just about any worthwhile model shop will keep such tube and wire (on the coil) as it's used in the Radio Control hobby.

[1] which would, even then, have been a relatively expencive way of doing this

Err no, most people who have used the wire-in-tube method will have built up the track bed using cork and then they run the tube *on the base-board surface* (which is later covered by landscape / scenery) - the biggest issue is the planning, the point operating tubes and their layout need planning to prevent the any tubes crossing another tube if the control levers are going to be grouped signal box like.

"Ian" wrote

In 4mm scale they still produce some 'part-built' single post semaphore signals. I'm not sure whether the signal remote control kit is still available - demand must have been very low - I can only remember selling one or two in the 18 years my shop has been open.

John.

Oh yes they do!

There are two manufacturers of wire-in-tube for point operation:

Gem (Mercontrol) Modeloils (slippery Sid)

Both advertise in the Railway Modeller. It's fairly cheap, and very simple.

I think you'll find that enquiries to the manufacturers will provide all the information you need.

Ian,

Have a search in your local Thompson or Yellow pages for sprung steel, or spring manufactures and PTFE tubing suppliers. You might find that it works out a lot cheaper than the Slippery Sid system advertised in RM magazine, especially if you have a lot of points. On a personal experience, Model Oils also take ages to process orders, and from a telephone conversation with railway modeller I wasn't the only one experiencing the problem

The trick with this system is to make sure the outer tube is stuck firmly along its length to the baseboard so that it doesn't flex when operating the point or signal.

Malcolm

Unless the tube is able to stretch or compress it should make no difference if the tube can flex, as long as both *ends* are firmly fixed.

Jane Sullivan said the following on 01/12/2005 10:21:

The magazine, or the method?? :-)

In message , Wolf Kirchmeir writes

Doesn't work outdoors, where the ravages of the weather conspire to rust the point motor solid within a year of installation.

I use air-operated point motors, with the motion transferred to the points via wire-in-tube where it is difficult to locate the motor close enough for a direct connection.

I made my own wire-in-tube with lengths of spring used for hanging net curtains, and soft iron wire which was a sliding fit (finding the right wire caused some fun in the ironmongers, and eventually the owner couldn't resist asking what this was for). Stapled down to the top of the baseboard, the longest run was about ten feet. The wire was attached to the point by a right-angle turn which took the wire up through the hole n the centre of the tiebar of a Peco point. The friction of the wire inside the spring was enough to give a positive action and to retain the point blades in place.

HTH John

Thanks for that reply John (and all other who have responded!) to clarify, I am using OO - should have mentioned that!

I have found an example of what I'm looking for on eBay, Item # 6017808566, though this is a distant, and I'd be looking for 2 or 3 homes, and maybe also be additional little levers for working points - especially now I have a few more ideas of how I might implement it!

Regards, Ian.

I had not considered running them on the surface on the board!!! Great idea - was the problem of keeping the 'pin' going half and inch upwards to the point that bothered me - of course running over the board surface would eliminate that.

Food for thought indeed!

Thanks.

Regards, Ian.

It's a simple matter of using omega loops, so called as they're shaped like the greek letter omega. Made of springy material they absorb the difference in movement. You arrange for the control wire/crank to have a greater throw than the point tie rod. At one end of the throw, the omega loop is compressed and holds the point rails firmly closed against the stock rail. At the other end of the throw the omega loop is under tension, again holding the point blades firmly against the (other) stock rail.

A similar scheme may be applicable to signals, depending on the design of the signal mechanism.

MBQ

:::Jerry:::: wrote: [...]

back in the late

Um, er, it was a "standard" method here in the 50s. And choke cables were cheaper than switch machines, back then, especially when bought from an auto-wrecker (recycler): you could buy one for 50 cents or less. There were people who could make war-surplus relays work, but even those cost a $1 or more each (median wage was about $1.50/hour). Plus associated wiring and pushbuttons.

BTW, Eshleman's linkage cost about as much as the solenoid type switch machine it was intended for.

As for availability of wire-in-tube controls: I stand corrected re: Mercontrol et al. Nice to know they're still in business.

Re: adjustment of wire in tube: one of the problems is that on the push, the wire flexes slightly, which makes the throw unequal (an effect that increases with distance), and makes adjustment at the point tricky. Distance also increases friction. The throw isn't "positive", either, so there is tendency to pull or push too hard, which tends to throw the whole thing out of adjustment. That being said, it is possible to build a (relatively) reliable installation, but for my money (and time) it's not worth the hassle.

HTH

In message , ":::Jerry::::" writes

I assume then that you are not using any Microsoft products at all :0)

Apologies! Just couldn't resist it.

As well as the other suggestions, google for "memory wire" or "muscle wire"

MBQ

I've always liked the slide switch turnout controls. If you have the September 1989 issue of Model Railroader, there's a very ood diagram on page 63. If not, there are lots of examples on the web. Of course, all of those are a little different :-).

I'd stay away from the methods that glue the slide switch in position unless you're very sure of your ability to fix it in the right place the first time. I'm not that capable :-).

In message , Ian writes

First of all - phone Ratio - they have been very nice to deal with in the past and will supply kits direct if you have local supply difficulties.

The ordinary plastic kits that make up into 4 signals can be made to operate *very* successfully by the addition of the remote operating unit. This has a spring for returning the signal arm. The supplied fine cord works very well within a single board.

For more remote operation the best thing to use is Fulgurex or Lemaco motor units.

We have used these signals successfully on a club exhibition layout for

8 or 9 years.

If you wish more information, contact me off group.