Can You Help?

The Branchline Goods Yard is a new family run Model Railway site. We are trying to get a Gallery and Forum started and would genuinely
appreciated any contributions from railway modellers.
How can you help?
Send your Model Railway Layout pictures & descriptions for posting on our Gallery Contribute to our Forum with News or Questions or sell your unwanted items
Go to the Gallery at www.tblgy-modelrailways.co.uk/gallery or to the Forum at www.tblgy-modelrailways.co.uk/forum
Any genuine & relevant contributions from Model Railway enthusiasts would be very welcome.
Thank you Geoff
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There is already a forum and this is it, and clearly you thought so by posting here.
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This is not a Forum, it is usenet. You clearly didn't think.
To the OP:
There are, however, plenty of other Fora. Why not negotiate for your own section on RMWeb or MRF. Why dilute the internet with yet another forum? Sorry, but I will be giving it a miss.
MBQ
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# This is not a Forum, it is usenet. You clearly didn't think.
It's not a Forum with a capital F but it is a forum with a lower-case f.
(Read your dictionary)
Clearly you didn't think like an adult
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.
I suggest you think more deeply about the differences between usenet and a web forum.
MBQ
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Clearly you didn't think like an adult

Hate to disillusion you but they are one and the same.
There are some web based enitiies that perhaps appear in a slightly different format, but they still consist of Threads and Posts.
Jeff
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The web based forum is controlled by the person hosting the site. Virginmedia changed from usenet forums to web based mainly I suspect because they were getting too much negative feedback. Post anything negative about them on there now and they delete it and repremand you. So much for free speach. The other drawback IMO is the sanitised nature of them and it can get very clicky on certain web forums plus you have to sign in every time you want to post.
Usenet IMO is much better, ok you have to put up with the trolls, spam and idiots but some groups I subscribe to are very good and do not suffer these.
--
mick



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I look forward to your reasoning behind that assertion. In particular, perhaps you would like to discuss in what way usenet groups are hosted on a central server in the way a web forum is. Who is responsible for backing up the content of a usenet group as opposed to a web forum, etc., etc.,...
MBQ
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On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:28:37 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

A forum is a place for discussion - a usage going back well over 2000 years. As a place for discussion, a USENET group is fairly obviously a forum - just as a face-to-face discussion group is, or Hyde Park corner for that matter.
"Jeff" reffered to fora in general - the assumption that this equated directly to Web Forums[1] was, so far as I can tell, yours. The assumption that they are the same would have come as a surprise to, say, Cicero..
[1] Lametably, this seems to be the accepted usage.
--
From the Model M of Andy Breen, speaking only for himself

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Another one who cannot read or understand?
I think you will find it was Gareth who referred to fora in general. But, hell, language and its usage changes.
Jeff was quite explicit in his reply that "usenet and a web forum" are "one and the same". I'm still waiting for a justification of that assertion.
MBQ
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On 19/07/2011 21:45, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

Your justification for there being differences seem to rely on where the messages are stored and who is responsible for a particular discussion.
Neither of these have any actual bearing on the actual functioning of the forum, ie the posting of messages and the threading of those messages, which is basically the same for both web and Usenet based schemes.
You also seem to be unaware that there are such things as moderated groups on Usenet where messages have to be approved by moderators. Although thankfully theses are in the minority.
The fact that Usenet messages are not centrally stored is a bonus as it does not rely on just one site. All of the servers however do back up, so there is multiple redundancy.
Google Groups has now very much blurred the distinction between web based forums and Usenet, some Google users not even realising that they are actually using Usenet!!!
Jeff
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Just two examples examples. i don't need justification since they *are* different.

Try accessing a web forum in a mewsreader.

What makes you say that?

You seem to be one of them.
MBQ
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On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:27:41 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com put finger to keyboard and typed:

You're still missing the point. A "web forum" is a specific type of forum. There are other types of forum which are not web-based. In fact, the mere existence of the phrase "web forum" implies the existence of forums which are not web-based, since otherwise it would be a tautology.
As regards these non-web forums, Usenet is most clearly one of them. That is, it is a place for discussion. The mechanism by which Usenet (or other non-web forums, such as mailing lists or even bulletin boards, which predated the web) is accessed and distributed is, of course, different to that of a web forum, but they serve a similar purpose.
When it comes to caling Usenet a forum, there are two equal and opposite mistakes which are commonly made. The first, usually made by those who access Usenet via Google Groups or similar, is to believe that Usenet is a web forum and hence call it a forum simply because they think it's the same as all the other forums they use and because they have no concept of anything other than the web offering access to a forum. The second mistake, usualy made by those who access Usenet via a newsreader and have encountered people making the first mistake, is to assume that the word "forum" always means a web forum in particular rather than the concept of a forum in general since in their experience that's what people always mean when they use it. Both are wrong, because Usenet is a forum - but it is not a web forum.
So, going back to the start of this thread, gareth wrote:
There is already a forum and this is it, and clearly you thought so by posting here.
it's pretty clear that he's making neither of these mistakes, since he was gently mocking the OP by pointing out that this is already a forum in the most important sense. But then you came along and fell straight into the trap of assuming that he was making the first mistake, and in your response to it ended up making the second.
Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
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<snip>

and whether the forum will survive the insolvency, death, or mere loss of interest of the owner. Fotopic is a recent case in point (though, of course, not really a forum), Not to mention the illogical and apparently random banning policies of some owners. Usenet has no owners.
As far as I am concerned, this is a significant difference.
The other is the fragmentation resulting from everyone's desire to start a web forum - you have to keep track of so many to get to read everything you want to (even after working out which sites are just rip-offs of another - and don't even mention the ones who charge for their rip-offs),

Fragmentation again - so many subtly different (or even vastly different) user interfaces!

Especially given the need for an illuminatus-level conspiracy to replace a moderator who has stopped communicating!

The road to hell is paved with good intentions - Google is presumably trying to create a single path to everywhere, but so often they make it worse. Someone should make them all read "MS Fnd in a Lbry".
Eric
P.S. Good luck with your new forum!
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On 19/07/2011 14:06, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

Who mentioned the web? There are lots of types of forum: http://www.ancientsites.com/aw/Article/807381
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

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On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 06:06:13 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com put finger to keyboard and typed:

gareth didn't mention web forums. He referred to forums in general. Usenet is a type of forum. Web forums are a type of forum. The bar in my local is a type of forum.
The real problem here is that, unlike Usenet, mailing lists, bulletin boards and other non web-based forums, web-based forums don't seem to have acquired a name all of their own. Instead, they are usually referred to just as "web forums" or, more simply, just as "forums". That can be confusing to people who aren't aware of the wider meaning of the word, but it's usually a confusion of their own making. There's certainly no excuse for seeing the word "forum" alone and assuming that the author meant "web forum" unless that intention is clear from the context.
Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
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Mark Goodge wrote:

That sums it up nicely ... My main problem today is the assumption by many that 'web forums' are better than 'email and usenet' type lists. I simply don't have the time to 'ring around' lists that are only 'web based'. If the list traffic is not coming in through my email client it does not get my attention ... note I say 'list' and I think that probably reflects my age?
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-----------------------------
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wrote:

m...
I understand the word forum has many meanings but in the context of communication on the internet I think it was reasonable to assume that it was web forum that were being discussed.
MBQ
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I understand the word forum has many meanings but in the context of communication on the internet I think it was reasonable to assume that it was web forum that were being discussed.
-----------------------
The problem with this particular form of forum is that when the inevitable brawl breaks out (like this one), the exchange of blows by email is never going to be as satisfying as going into the pub's car park and using one's fists to make the argument really, really personal....
Cheers, Steve W -------
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The advantage of Usenet(uk.rec.models.rail)is that I have opened my newsreader, seen your post, and replied to it in about 30 seconds. In a web based forum I would have to open a browser, go to the forum url, sign in, be re-directed back to the forum page, find the thread (possibly having to go to a second or third page as it is now old), reply to the message, and submit. I have been to some forums where if you type a lot of text which takes time, you sometimes get logged out because you have taken too long and then have to sign in again losing you reply in the process! I guess this is just poor design but to combat that, I now ALWAYS open notebook in which to type the reply, then copy and paste the text into the forum reply pane later if it is going to be a long diatribe.
Web forums do have their place and can be useful but Usenet scores for it's simplistic and basic uncluttered appearance.
I've given up on the brawl outside, now at the bar enjoying a pint :-)
--
mick



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