Perhaps I'll go back to model aeroplanes! =8^)
Right now I'm taking a soggy brain break from CAD designing model kits
for production, so I'm well aware of the compromises involved in "scale"
My aim is to make the models as close to scale reproductions while
making them suitable for model railway operation as well as suitable for
production with the equipment I have available to me.
Some of those compromises, such as wheel standards and clearances add
together to cause obvious distortions from scale, while others such as
couplings blow the whole appearance, but generally I aim at prototypical
Narrowing the gauge by 12% (18.83>16.5) would blow the whole design!
No, not at all, those who wish to model to as close to exact as
possible will do so in P4. You simply can't find a clue or you're just
trolling - so what are you, and clueless cretin or a clueless
I was pointing out that no one needs to reinvent the wheel so do what
you keep suggesting vast numbers of people want to do what they
Trolling? Well, yes. =8^)>
I realize that this discussion won't lead anywhere because the UK scale
I've nothing against people doing ridiculous things so long as they
recognise that they are.
Sure, and I'm pointing out that the UK model railway industry has
painted itself into a corner, just as it did in the 1960s with Hornby
Dublo/Trix/Tri-ang/mettatoy(?). The outcome of that situation was that
all four comercial companies folded.
It's easy to imagine that your way of modelling is the way everyone
models. (I can say that because I've been there, done that)
However, the model market is divided into (at least) three groups:
- toy train operators.
- scale modellers.
Of the firms from the 1960s, only Tri-ang survived, with new owners but
with the same products. That suggests to me that the first group is the
biggest or most influential
Judging by the present UK markets, with models that look superb but
often won't survive real and long-term operating, the "collectors" are
the second biggest group.
That leaves you in the third or least popular group.
Reading manufacturers interviews in the model mags and perusing their
catalogues, the logic behined their choices of models seems to be along
the lines of: we need a big express loco, a smaller express loco, a
small tank loco, a bigger tank loco, a medium goods loco ... not, we
need an LMS + GWR + LMS + SR + BR heavy Goods locos. When modellers
demand a specific type of loco the manufacturers appear to consider it
in terms of their current range, because a seconf small tank loco might
well take sales away from their current offerings.
An L&YR 2-4-2T isn't a likely candidate if they already offer a GWR
2-4-2T but it might be if their competitor already has the GWR 2-4-2T.
Glade to know that you know that you are being ridiculous, what do you
not understand about the that there is no problem in the UK, those who
want to model in P4 or EM can do so and still use 99pc of a RTR model
if they so with, those who wish to model in 00 can do so, those who
just want to play trains whilst mixing and matching their collection
can do so - even to the extent that Bern loading gauge stock will fit
through 4mm = 1ft bridges and tunnels etc.
Not because they sold 4mm = 1ft models though, Hornby-Doubo folded due
to production costs and sticking with outmoded *technology* (3-rail),
Trix folded in the UK because they tried - more or less - what you are
suggesting, Tri-ang and Triang-Hornby folded due to their parent
companies (ROVEX) failings - indeed their model/toy train business was
still trading and as sold very quickly by the administrators, as for
the last am not sure if you mean Playmobil or Palitoy (TA Mainline
model railways) - the latter failed again due to the parent company
and not due to the model railway division, indeed many of the models
live on, although some have been retooled. To complete the picture,
Airfix Model Railways (later called GMR) folded due to the failings of
the parent company, again many of their 4mm model railway items live
on in either the ranges of Bachmann or Hornby.
The UK model industry has never been so health as it is now!
<the rest of yopur ignorant bollocks snipped>
As I keep saying, you really don't understand the UK model railway
The UK industry now barely exists! What you have is UK marketting
divisions of Chinese manufacturers.
Sure, but I'm left wondering what it is that differs from the rest of
the world, and also why it is that you think you can continue with such
an oddity as OO when the rest of the world uses HO.
It's as if you Brits carried on with Sinclair computers and BASIC when
the rest of the World went IBM and Windows.
We've established that fact.
What I've postulated is that the manufacturers would sell far more UK
models outside the UK if they were HO scale.
Given that US and European models have sold well in the UK for the last
40+ years, don't you think that European and US modellers might buy a
few UK HO models if they existed?
You can't have that low an opinion of UK prototype?
But you know they're not going to, because thay already have 4mm
aren't going to do a mix'n'match.
Lima and Palitoy both made that mistake a long time ago.
And somebody mentioned Trix, with their own intermediate scale.
I don't seem to have got my point across to you!
Your British models would be saleable outside the UK if they were to an
internationally acceptable scale.
Total sales would rise and your prices would drop.
Trix and Rivarossi both made 3.8mm/foot models.
That's getting a bit rude.
Are you suggesting you don't care about the scale difference between HO
and OO and that you happily accept HO scale models in your collection
and on your layout?
That would blow your argument.
That's just it, Lima, Palitoy, Trix, Lima, Rivarossi etc, didn't make HO
models. All of them made terribly short (height wise), wide models that
looked nothing like the prototype, because they were so badly distorted.
To Reply, delete what is "Not Required" in abbreviated form
Which wasn't the main problem. So was much of the 4mm stuff of the
And that's what HO is, alongside OO.
Is your pickup goods going to contain a mixture of HO and OO wagons?
When Lima did HO British stuff that's what you saw on some people's
layouts before they learned from their mistake.
Somebody mentioned an HO Flying Scotsman.
For it to sell here they would have to also supply HO Gresley,
Thompson or BR coaches, matching freight and tank engines, matching
wagons and brake vans.
In short, a complete system.
And only new modellers will buy it because everybody else already has
a 4mm collection.
And unless they are complete newbies, potential buyers aren't going to
lock themselves into a system from a single supplier. Remember Triang
Somebody mentioned accessories. Those are the least of the problem.
People, some buildings etc can be mixed and matched. Some of my
favourite layouts in 7mm scale make streets look longer by tapering
the scale of the buildings. Ditchling Green does this on its high
street. But that's done by hand with a continual decrease, even in the
They are 3.8mm scale, closer to OO than HO, so you can't sell them to me
When they were first introduced they were to a superior standard than
any other proprietry UK (OO) coaches.
Rivarossi fell into the same trap with their Royal Scot and LMS coaches,
which were beautiful models, but to 1:80 scale.
That doesn't work for HO modellers - unless of course one has a large
scenic area in front of one's layout so that the trains are reduced
scale to the foreground. :-)
You're absolutely right that one needs more than a loco and track to
build a layout, or in Fleischmann's case more than a Western Region Loco
and three Southern Region coaches.
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