Garden railways

Duh. Because British modellers already have 4mm stock.

Actually, there has been one. Brass and expensive. They (Tenshodo?) have done several HO British models since.

Up until recent years the models that the mass production manufacturers have chosen to produce have been those they expected to get large numbers of sales for. In recent years we've seen models released that obviously cannot be expected to sell in vast numbers. Obvious examples are Heljan doing the Deltic prototype and the other UK Diesel prototypes. Brawa is doing similar things in Germany with models like the BR

19.1001, Bavarian S2/6 and Prussian S9. (all single locos)

Fleischmann brought out the HO D800 and three Bullied coaches about twenty years ago. They are still in the Fleischmann catalogue, so either the second production run is selling _very_ slowly or they are selling enough to keep them in the catalogue but not enough to justify bringing out new models. If a thousand odd models have taken 20 years to sell you'd think they would have dumped them on the market at cost price a decade or more ago.

Greg.P.

We've established that fact. What I've postulated is that the manufacturers would sell far more UK models outside the UK if they were HO scale. Given that US and European models have sold well in the UK for the last

40+ years, don't you think that European and US modellers might buy a few UK HO models if they existed? You can't have that low an opinion of UK prototype?

No, me too, and who knows how many others. Keep in mind that Flying Scotsman toured N. America. An HO version would sell more than few dozen, I think.

Only the few additional HO ones. British modellers wouldn't buy them.

Idiot.

There have been HO models of Flying Scotsman and of GWR King, in brass, made by Fulgurex around 1970 IIRC. Pricey, of course, and aimed at the collector market. I couldn't afford either back then (well, I could've, but I would've had a lot of 'splainin' to do to my nearest and dearest, who had other ideas about how to spend our surplus lolly.)

If the UK model railway community bought HO instead of OO then the sales would be combined, and considerably larger than for just OO.

I'm an idiot because you want to continue with an odd scale which cuts you off from the rest of the World's model and accessory production ...

But you know they're not going to, because thay already have 4mm aren't going to do a mix'n'match.

Stop pretending.

Lima and Palitoy both made that mistake a long time ago.

And somebody mentioned Trix, with their own intermediate scale.

And a liar as well now.

I don't seem to have got my point across to you!

Your British models would be saleable outside the UK if they were to an internationally acceptable scale. Total sales would rise and your prices would drop.

Trix and Rivarossi both made 3.8mm/foot models.

That's getting a bit rude. Are you suggesting you don't care about the scale difference between HO and OO and that you happily accept HO scale models in your collection and on your layout? That would blow your argument.

Regards, Greg.P.

In message , ":Jerry:" writes

I don't understand. There's no alternative in the line I replied to. I shall say that to those who model in P4 and S7, but I shan't say anything to those who come inverted.

Ditto for "Finescale N". The 2mm standard was proved and written down well over 40 years ago.

The reason 2mm standards work is the same as the reason the P4 (18.83) standard works; the standard defines both the wheel and the track. Use matching wheels/track and it all works fine. Try to force one which doesn't fit, or to cover a multitude of other wheel tread designs, then it falls apart.

Much like the relationship between P87 and P4(18.83), there is a proven FiNe standard for 1:160 N scale in use in Europe, which is the 2mm wheel/track standards with the gauge and back-to-back reduced by 0.45mm to reflect the difference in scale gauge.

- Nigel

Look idiot, if the UK model railway community was to adopt H0 and then built their layouts to that 'scales' loading gauge they would NOT be able to run non UK stock as it would not fit through the typical UK bridge, tunnel and possibly platform...

But it doesn't as those who want to 'play trains' (apologies to Jane and John...) can do so at the moment, if the changes you suggest were made they would no longer be able to do so! The most kindest way of summing you and your suggestion up is, you are have solution looking for a problem were no problem exists.

So why haven't one of the US manufactures made an H0 version then, indeed why hasn't Hornby made such a model then?...

Which, either way, rather blows your argument out of the water - there is and never will be a market for RTR British outline models in H0!

That's just it, Lima, Palitoy, Trix, Lima, Rivarossi etc, didn't make HO models. All of them made terribly short (height wise), wide models that looked nothing like the prototype, because they were so badly distorted.

Kevin Martin

Which wasn't the main problem. So was much of the 4mm stuff of the time.

And that's what HO is, alongside OO.

Is your pickup goods going to contain a mixture of HO and OO wagons? When Lima did HO British stuff that's what you saw on some people's layouts before they learned from their mistake.

Somebody mentioned an HO Flying Scotsman.

For it to sell here they would have to also supply HO Gresley, Thompson or BR coaches, matching freight and tank engines, matching wagons and brake vans.

In short, a complete system.

And only new modellers will buy it because everybody else already has a 4mm collection.

And unless they are complete newbies, potential buyers aren't going to lock themselves into a system from a single supplier. Remember Triang TNT.

Somebody mentioned accessories. Those are the least of the problem. People, some buildings etc can be mixed and matched. Some of my favourite layouts in 7mm scale make streets look longer by tapering the scale of the buildings. Ditchling Green does this on its high street. But that's done by hand with a continual decrease, even in the same building.

I bought a couple of Trix coaches once - cheap nowhere near any 4mm models - too small!!!!

Can't remember if I still have them or not, if I have - I think I will sell them

My Grandmother who passed on nearly 25 years ago had steam in her blood so she reckoned. Her father was an agricultural contractor and owned a couple of traction engines and a roller.Only met my Great Grandfather once, unfortunately about 10 years after his last Fowler had gone for scrap.Gran had a few Brass motion bits as highly polished ornaments till the day she died. She married a chap who had managed to get into the GWR works at Swindon. I do not know what Grandad was indentured at but do remember him talking about the Pacific Great Bear being constructed while he was there. Unfortunately injuries from the trenches of WW1 prevented him returning to a Railway career. They met at Swindon station while he was recovering. Though both getting on a bit they made their way to Kensington Olympia station to see the Loco King George V on the Bulmers Cider train back in the Autumn of 71 when British Rails steam ban was relaxing a bit. It would have been the last Steam loco he saw so being a GWR one it was nicely appropriate.

G.Harman

There are numerous European ferry wagons which are of suitable loading gauge to run into Britain, British ferry wagons which run into Europe and not a few British locos that have run in Europe, the US, Australia etc.

There's nothing on the UK market that is saleable outside the UK. (Well there's "Thomas", but that's not _model railway) I'd be buying those cottage industry 1920s/30s model cars and trucks, plastic building kits etc etc if they weren't so far from HO scale.