insulfrog and electrofrog points

Gday everyone. I just bought a bunch of used Peco points on Ebay, and have found about half to be electropoints. (Silly me, I didnt ask the question of the seller!). Anyway, never having used them, I am wondering if I have to wire them specially in any way. I will be using them in passing loop situations and in a crossover between two mainlines, not in a siding. Any info would be hugely appreciated.

Scoot

Reply to
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Scoot,

Have a look at:

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Graham Plowman

Reply to
gppsoftware

Thanks for that Graham, but I didnt mean for use with a point motor, nor for DCC operation (thanks Kim). I meant for purely manual operation in an existing, but evolving, layout. Do I need to do anyhting special, as regards wiring, or can I just place them in position, as I would an insulfrog point. (My lack of electical knowledge is manifest, and its showing, I know )

scoot

Reply to
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In message , ----- writes

You would need to put an insulated joiner at certain points depending upon how you are laying out your track after the points. If it is just sidings with no 'return' path then metal joiners are OK.

Reply to
Mike Hughes

"-----" wrote

Basically the power must only be fed into the turnout from the toe (single end) of the point.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

Scoot,

The method of wiring live frog turnouts correctly is the same for DC or DCC operation. There is no such thing as specially wiring live frog turnouts for DCC operation. There is only one way and it has been used by builders of hand made track since long before DCC was even invented. It is simply the correct way to do it. If you simply toe feed turnouts and fit isolating joints on the crossing V, it doesn't stop potential shorting problems with the stock and switch rails. Live frog turnouts are really not suitable for reliable use without some kind of auxilliary switch which can either be on a point motor or a manual panel switch. Many people who use wire-in-tube point operation tend to connect the wire to a switch which also handles the point crossing V polarity. The method indicated on the link I provided shows the way to wire live frog turnouts for long term reliable operation, removing all shorting possibilities.

Graham Plowman

Reply to
gppsoftware

thanks everybody. I think I'll just put them in the drawer with the other things I dont understand, and stick to what I know. My layout runs nicely just the way it is, and if I need/want to expand it any further, I'll buy new Insulfrog pointwork.

scoot

Reply to
scoot

Stick 'em back on eBay!

Reply to
airsmoothed

And this is why Peco & almost every manufacturer make the things. Some people have no need or desire to do things "properly" , whatever anyone else's interpretation is. Personally, I agree with Graham's methods, but its not my layout.

Reply to
Kevin Martin

If it works just fine for you with Insulfrog, just try the electrofrog and use them, they will work just the same, all you need do is put insulating rail joiners on the frog rails if there is any chance of a backfeed into the frog. If you use then for single ended sidings you won't need to worry about this. Keith

Reply to
Keith

As you intend to use them on passing loops you will be sure to generate a feed from the "wrong" end of a point and get a frog going live from both poles when fat footed stock rolls over it. Get rid of them or do the P.Hd on point wiring !

Peter A

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Reply to
peter abraham

"peter abraham" wrote

Nah, just put some insulated joiners beyond the frog rails.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

people have no need or desire to do things "properly" , whatever anyone

else's interpretation is. Personally, I agree with Graham's methods, but its not my layout.

-- Regards

Kevin Martin

Kevin,

Completely agree with you. The only problem is that if people aren't encourages to do things 'properly' we continue to receive the same questions on message forums like this and things don't move forward. On the other hand, this does highlight an issue that a lot of people don't understand live frog wiring but Peco are doing nothing about addressing this. I can't fathom out why they can't make a turnout with an in-built switch, 'properly' wired (as per

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so that the user only has to attach insulated joints to the wing rails if required. Surely it isn't difficult!

Graham Plowman

Reply to
gppsoftware

Graham

I think the problem is that Peco decided long ago that the almost useless tags on the side of their code 100 series were the solution. There OK while new, but after a few years & a bit of dirt/tarnish etc. they simply stop being reliable.

Your web link

An excellent description of the correct way to wire live frog points. Even better that you dispel the myth about *DCC Friendly* points on the same page. One simple page describes all you need to know about getting virtually 100% *metal* contact through a point, leading to almost guarenteed pick-up of power. No more nonsense about short wheelbase locos etc. If your only picking up on 4 wheels, it makes **** all difference what the wheel base is if you have great lumps of plastic in the frog.

Well done

Reply to
Kevin Martin

I just use insulating joiners on the two diverging ends (ie the two rails connected to the frog and the outer running rails as well. Power is supplied to the point from the toe end - Only snag is that this relies on the blades touching the rails to carry power through to the frog (unless you buy a slide switch, drill a hole in the operating lever part and use wire-in-tube with the end of the wire in the hole - That way the switch operates the point and changes the wiring to suit, it is only the frog you need to switch.

Regards

Mike

Reply to
Mike Smith

Why put insulating joiners on the outer rails as well? In most cases they are not needed.

Same goes for insulfrog when used for power routing as Peco suggest. Keith

Reply to
Keith

Re joiners - saves having to think - I run a separate supply to each section.

Reply to
Mike Smith

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