Re: EM gauge wheelsets..Ian Rice book

My above example uses rounded values, close to the mass of many heavier cast metal H0/00 models. For my Locomotive fleet of 2-6-0's mass is about 240g,

2-8-0's are around 270g and my 4-8-2 is over 400g. The above example clearly shows a 300g locomotive without a sprung bogie can have a higher tractive effort compared to a 400g locomotive with a sprung bogie. I don't need the extra mass, however if you do, the centre of gravity can be close to the leading driving wheel. For some of my models the centre of gravity about 5mm from the leading driving wheel. The other option is to build the locomotives tender so it adds weight to the locomotive by having a fixed coupling beam and the front wheels of the tender not taking any of the tenders weight.

Most if not all of my leading bogies are less than 10g in mass. They all stay on the track at scale speeds, on my layout and they have visited other layouts which used RTR turnouts.

Bearing area has little to do with our model bearings friction. It has allot to do with wear. Friction force = Cofficent of friction x The force perpendicular to the surface. A common emprical formula which has been used for a long time by engineers. I am sure the science was done over 100 years ago to support the formula. That'a a direct proportional relationship.

Inside bearings have a larger drag compared to pinpoint bearings because the friction force acts at a larger radius, resulting in less mechanical advantage.

Minimal compared to the large drag from the sprung bogie in my example using scaled down proportion prototype axle loads.

The total mass on the drivers is what counts. As long as the centre of gravity is between the driving wheels, within reason there is no problem.

You are still ignoring the facts about the increased drag from inside bearings. The end result is less tractive effort as the above examples show.

Using my web page table and my wagon mass formula of 0.58g/mm a 1000 ton train is equal to 13.3 75 ton coal wagons. Wagon length is about 130mm, train length is 1729mm. Train mass is 1003g. To move this train on flat straight track requires a locomotive of only 100.3g mass. My white metal NSW 18 can do it easily. My 0-6-0 whitemetal NSW 18 will move 60 4 wheel wagons without much trouble. A small amount of wheel slip on starting could be observed. It's mass is about 200g. I included a few bogie wagons to get the full equivalent length. Train weight was not calculated. The test includes going through 1 turnout and part of the train was on a slight up hill grade around 1 in 100. It also pushed the train without any trouble. In theory using the table on my web page it should be able to pull a train of at least 2kg. How much mass is in your models will determine how many wagons it equals.

The above experiment proves I can pull full prototype length trains appropriate to the locomotive if prototype curves and grades are used. I have compensated for the grades on mainline curves thus maintaining full prototype mainline loads. My limit is the siding lengths on my layout. If I can do it, so can you.

Reply to
Terry Flynn
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Been there, done that!

In that case, a 'pinpoint bearing' and a 'straight axle and bearing' would have much the same friction for the same load. That isn't correct.

You've postulated a very light unsprung bogie vs a heavily sprung bogie. I did make the point that the force on the sprung bogie could be equal to the weight of the unsprung bogie. If you can make a 10 gram unsprung bogie work then we could make a 5 gram bogie with 5 grams of springing and 5 grams added to the smokebox work or even a zero gram bogie with 10 grams of springing and 10 grams added to the smokebox. :-)

If at the extreme you have 300 grams on the leading drivers and zero grams on the rear drivers, you will lose no tractive effort, but you have reduced your current collection to one axle and you have a loco that will not reliably track in reverse. Current collection and smooth tracking also count.

Whatever weight you claim will work for your unsprung bogie will also work for a sprung bogie. In fact, the sprung bogie should work with considerably less downward force.

Stiction in model bearings is greater than rolling resistance. From my experiments, stiction in pinpoint bearings is about 150% rolling resistance.

I don't have the space available for prototypical curves or train lengths. My locos pull trains in proportion to those the most powerful loco can handle at scale speeds on my layout. As there are sharp curves in the hidden section and a steep gradient on the open section, this requires that locos be able to pull decent loads.

Regards, Greg.P.

Reply to
Gregory Procter

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