Red Jinty: What price now?

It's the same loco with the wrong markings:-

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As far as I know 47357 never carried red livery in BR service.

(kim)

Reply to
kim
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"kim" wrote

It didn't, I thought it carried it for a while in preservation.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

Yes it did:-

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But the livery is still 'ficticious' in that it was never applied by BR.

(kim)

Reply to
kim

"kim" wrote

At the risk of sounding pedantic you said earlier 'The BR livery is fictitious and the MR livery was only ever carried on a preservation loco'.

That to me suggests you were inferring that the BR livery never existed, not even in preservation - if you see what I mean?

John.

Reply to
John Turner

Before I found that particular pic I didn't think it did.

(kim)

Reply to
kim

"kim" wrote

Ah well, guess that clears that up then. :-)

John.

Reply to
John Turner

What about the umpteen other locos that carry "fictitious" liveries, or have "wrong" details on them in preservation??

If it carried the livery in use - whether in "real" BR or preservation,, then so what?

Probably the biggest example of "fiction" is 4472. It never carried 4472 as an A3, it never carried a double chimney and Witte deflectors in LNER green, it never had air brakes etc. etc.

But 4472 in apple green is a marketing man's dream. Put it in BR green as

60103 and no-one's bothered. (The double chimney is for efficiency, the deflectors are for safety and the air brakes are for operational reasons.) It was converted to an A3 after being renumbered 103. It even carries an ex-A4 boiler these days!!

Who cares? It generates cash to keep it running and in the public domain.

One of the nicest "fictional" liveries was the BR red carried by 46441. I even went to the trouble of painting my vaguely Hornby Ivatt 2MT in red, after spending hours on it with a Crownline conversion kit, because I wanted to model it in preservation guise.

If an owner wants to paint it another livery, then great. It's their "train set" let them do with it what they want.

Look at the interest 5972 "Hogwart's Castle" has generated. There are many people out there, that believe there really is an engine named "Hogwart's Castle". Is "Thomas" real? For gawd's sake, it's only a hobby.

Mick

Reply to
Mick Bryan

"Mick Bryan" wrote

That's an over-generalisation. If 4472 in its current guise came to Hull I wouldn't bother going tothe end of our road to watch it pass, but if it was in BR green I'd certainly do a couple of hundred miles round trip to see it!

John.

Reply to
John Turner

The message from "Mick Bryan" contains these words:

Waddya mean "ONLY"...?

Reply to
David Jackson

Over-generalisation accusation accepted and I plead guilty M'Lud. Maybe I should have used the words "most people aren't" instead of "no-one" :-) Mick

Reply to
Mick Bryan

OK John, I'll bite. What sort of generalisation is not an "over-generalisation"?

Surely all generalisations have exceptions, otherwise they would be universal truths and not generalisations?

And you, being a man from the railway trade, are obviously the very exception that proves the general rule in this case!

Cheers, Steve

Reply to
Steve W

"Steve W" wrote

I might be from the trade, but first and foremost I'm an enthusiast, and one who saw 'Flying Scotsman' in British Railways' service in the late 50s and early 60s. The appeal to me, and I suspect many other enthusiasts too, is the prospect of nostalgia for what we remember from all those years ago.

On the other hand how many people can honestly say they recall pre-nationalisation steam, and can therefore be similarly nostalgic for it? Sure they'll be some, but to be honest they'll be in decreasingly small numbers.

I suspect that suggestions that 'Apple Green' is a marketing man's dream is pure fantasy. The public will generally accept whatever's served up in terms of livery - after all they know little different.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

I am interested in what era people choose to model and one curious thing I have noticed from looking at model railway magazines of various periods is that there never seems to have been a time when it was fashionable to model Early BR - say 1948 to 1957. For a long time the "Golden Age" seems to have been reckoned to be the 1930's, and this seems to have been superseded by the idea that 1958 to 1962 was the Golden Age (at least if you wanted to include steam). Then there seems to have been another quantum leap from about 1962 to the Blue Diesel era; I don't recall seeing any layouts set in 1965 or 1966, for instance.

Andy KIrkham

Reply to
Andy Kirkham

The message from "Andy Kirkham" contains these words:

It is interesting that 65-66 is not modelled much - the variety was tremendous then with some steam (very dirty and clapped out by then though) and all the prototype diseasels, most of which sank into oblivion within a few years. Not my idea of fun but I would have thought a Mecca for modelling!

Reply to
Colin Reeves

"Colin Reeves" wrote

1962 was the year when the real variety in steam power ceased with dozens of classes disappearing and vast quantities of steam locos going for scrap. Steam could still be seen working top link expresses on both East Coast and West Coast Main Line expresses along with those of both Southern and Great Western routes. Much of this had ceased by 1965-66 which is probably the main reason why that era is so little favoured.

John.

Reply to
53A Models

But in BR green, it's just another engine.......... Apple green stands out from the crowd. I think it was FS's previous owner, Dr. Tony Marchington, who found out to his cost, the lack of appeal of a Brunswick green Flying Scotsman.

The public "know" more than you credit them for. Flying Scotsman is "light green" when I asked a number of my non-railway enthusiast friends!

Try this as a question. Put two pictures in front of them (the public, not an enthusiast). Make sure that they are not close enough to identify the name or number. If the two pictures are 4771 "Green Arrow" in apple green and 60103 "Flying Scotsman" in BR green, then ask them to point to "Flying Scotsman". I would like to take a bet on the result!!

Mick

Reply to
Mick Bryan

"Mick Bryan" wrote

If they know more than I credit them, they should then be able to distinguish between 'Green Arrow' and 'Flying Scotsman' or are you just confirming my point?

John.

Reply to
John Turner

In message , Mick Bryan writes

When Flying Scotsman visited Torbay and Dartmouth it was in BR green and many visitors refused to believe that it was indeed FS!

Reply to
John East

My point exactly!!

Cheers, Mick

Reply to
Mick Bryan

No, maybe I didn't express my sentiments precisely - the public want an apple green loco. They are more likely to pick the picture of Green Arrow in apple green, than FS in BR green as "Flying Scotsman".

The vast majority of people that go to see steam locos (and preserved railways) are not "enthusiasts". They *will* generalise. Every DMU will be "Daisy" - we know it's a 101, 110, 108 105 or whatever. Every small blue tank engine will be "Thomas". Every large apple green loco will be either Flying Scotsman or "Henry". Every steam loco with a sloping front is "Mallard" Every loco in BR green will be just another loco.

Cheers, Mick

Reply to
Mick Bryan

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