Torch Care

Greg,

Tips are cleaned with little kits that contain a file and some little toothy wire rods. You simply burnish the end of the tip with the file and push the appropriate size wire rod down the hole or holes in the tip.

Do not use any thread sealer. Just keep everything clean and completely free of oil or grease. Typically, the torch head to torch body connections are hand tight only. The torch to hose body connections are wrench tight but not incredibly so. Barely tight enough to not leak is what you want.

If your threads are dirty use a tooth brush or something with soft bristles. Brass is fairly soft.

Vernon

Thanks Vernon. I had to have my regulators re-built and they looked great when they were done, like new. I just wanted to make sure I was caring for them properly and if possible keep them looking new. I am very new at welding. My regulators were in the family - I don't know where they came from orginially. I started with at set of Firepower

The Firepower Oxygen regulator doesn't hold pressure now and I thought I could change the diaphram in it as I don't think it would be worth it to have it re-built. I guess I don't really need it since I had the Victor regulators re-built. It would be nice to have a spare, or perhaps pass them on to someone else in the family.

I will look for one of those kits and make sure to keep the tips clean from the start.

Thanks for your help.

Greg

Do you mean when you set it to a pressure with the torch shut off, the pressure starts slowly rising? Or do you mean when you're operating, the pressure varies? These are two really different issues.

In my town (Seattle) we have a good but expensive rebuilding service (Hansen & Miller in Ballard). They will rebuild any regulator for about $60. If your regulator is a good quality one (I know nothing about firepower, personally I like Victor or Airco or Smith regulators) it may be worth rebuilding. Or, you can keep it as it is and when you pass it along, suggest it be rebuilt.

GWE

Grant,

I think "Firepower" is the name under which Victor markets their low end kits through Sam's Club and such.

Greg,

As Grant says, you wanna make sure regulators are working properly. Also, you really need to get the safety issues to where they're second nature before you even light up that torch! If you do get going and use your rig a lot and can find the money, get some two stage regulators. They are a heck of a lot more reliable. But they cost quite a bit more. Since the oxygen bottles are reduced from 2000 psi down to about 25 psi and since acetylene straight from the bottle is only about 400 psi, you COULD get by with just a two stage oxygen regulator.

But they're worth having if you use a torch a lot.

Go out to a welding shop and get a manual for your torch. Or you can probably find it on the manufactuer's web site. But if you haven't had some training you really must read a safety manual over and over and over until you can light up and shut down a torch as second nature. Oxyacetylene is a dangerous and heady brew!

What happens is when I open the O2 valve to set the working pressure the pressure rises rapidly and I can not turn it down at all. It either wide open or closed. I think it would be as cheap to buy a new one. So I guess I will just hand down the Acetylene regulator.

Thanks

Greg

Thanks Vernon. Unfortunately I am one of the working poor, so I get up when it's dark and I get home when it's dark. I couldn't find a night or a weekend class for welding here. I did buy a welding text book and I read it several times before I even got the gas cylinders. I did get B size tanks, which I bought off someone selling them in the paper. I took an 'on line test for welding at some site I found using Google and I only missed one question. How far do you store petroleum products from O2 sources? (I said 50 feet the 'right ' answer was 40 feet. I met an artist that welds and she said "just remember - A before O or up you go". so I have used that catchy jingle everytime I light the torch (which has been four times now). My first welds, using rebar, just broke when I tried to flex them but the last two I could bend them right at the weld without braking so I think I am getting it. I looked online and couldn't find a manual but I didn't think about the welding shop - so I will try that. There's one by work that I can go to on lunch break. The larger set of regulators that I had rebuilt are nice. The O2 regulator is a two stange one, a Victor 460D. I think the distant cousin this came from used the welder professional, but they are gone now. (I hope it wasn't a welding accident). I don't know anyone else that welds so it looks like I am on my own.

Greg

Just needs a new seat ..

GWE

Greg,

Although it would be ducky to have an operator's manual for your specific torch, ANY operator's manual will largely do, at least as far as safety issues go.

I will be surprised if Victor, Smith, and the other torch manufacturers' web sites don't have a downloadable manual in PDF format for all their torches.

Alternatively, or perhaps in addition to the above, you can find some nifty old books on ebay for a song. If you can't find something pretty quick and free, email me and I'll try to find an operator's manual and mail it to you for kreesmas.

Vernon

Also, I forgot to mention that rebar is not very good material to practice on. While most steel is made to some kind of a standard, rebar is the metallurgical equivalent of "spam" i.e. "mystery meat".

The problem is carbon. A large amount of rebar is cast from old railroad rail which is high carbon. However, the percentage is all over the map.

The problem is a metallurgical one. The higher the carbon content the more difficult it is to weld the steel. This is because it hardens and becomes brittle after welding.

To find out what you've got heat a piece of the rebar to red and quench it in water. If you can't nick it with a file it is high carbon. While it's hard to weld you can make some nifty dirt cheap tools with it. But as an example of what you might NOT want to use it for, the rungs of a step ladder come to mind. After welding, you might take a step, it snaps, and down you go. Tee post steel is similarly of unknown progeny.

What you want to use for welding purposes, unless a specific design requirement calls for something else, is MILD steel. This is the run of the mill "hot rolled" stuff you see everywhere. But typically, this is not rebar, not tee post, and not bed rail frame.

It's not that these materials are not weldable. It's just that they're more difficult to weld and require additional procedural steps, such as pre and/or post-heating yada yada yada.

Gentlemen, start your welders! VT

Excellent commentary. One should also note..that when doing the heat/quench test..do it on both ends..as gross variations within even a couple foot of material are quite common.

They dont stir the mix very well.

I once found a thread cutting tap cast into the side of a chunk of rebar..so you can imagine the homogenity of that mix.....

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the s*it out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

I gave it a try and I could nick the end with my finger nail. It was 'crusty' on the end. I was going to use an old bed frame to make a welding table with a top of fire brick. Should I get some angle iron from Home Depot? Right now I am welding on the ground and it's not too comfortable. I tried to braze the rebar but it wasn't much better. It looks like the bronze crystalized and broke fairly easily. These poor welds will work for what I need, but I would sure like to get it right. Where do you get metal materials? Is there a good source of material to use as recycled?

The text book I have been using as a resource is a Union Carbine book featureing Linde products. I have done most of the excersizes but my puddle pushing is not as pretty as in the book. I understand the rich flame mixture and the oxidizing mixture but I am not sure when to use which one. It's not clear in the book when you use which mixture. I noticed if I use a high oxygen mix on the rebar it sparks like crazy.

Greg

Bed frames are commonly said to be made of "crap steel" but I don't believe it. I think they are actually tempered spring angle, i.e. with significant carbon content. I'm certain they are much harder than normal mild steels, although they can be cut with carbon bandsaw blades.

Due to the high carbon content, they aren't really the best choice for a first welding project IMO.

I buy steel new mostly. Find out who sells the steel in your area and go politely ask them for the paperwork to open a cash account. Then when you need a

Other perhaps useful methods would be to look on your local craigslist for cheap garage metal shelving and use the uprights ..

I made a project from bed frame iron recently, just to check the stuff out.

I like the rack idea - I need one also for sheet metal and left overs. I think a right angle down the front and back edge that keeps the end from sliding off the side - maybe ring the outsides. A stopper bar.

Wow - call a steel company for a 1.5" x 1.5" x .075" chunk of steel ? polished

Like the use of double non-metric notation 0.075 is metric and .075 is Imperial. But not everyone uses it that way nor knows to do it that way. Such is life.

Martin [ thanks for the info reminder ] Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Grant Erw>

er... Greg...

I don't know what it was you "nicked with your finger nail". But I assure you, it was not the quenched end of a piece of rebar.

The purpose of quenching and nicking it is to determine, based on the hardness, whether it's high carbon, and therefore, suitable for do-it-yourself welding projects.

Most rebar is high carbon. After heating to red and quenching in water, you can't touch most of it with a NEW FILE.

Therefore, although I mean no disrespect to your finger nail, whatever it was you "nicked" it was not the steel at the end of that rebar!

Regards, Vern> I gave it a try and I could nick the end with my finger nail. It was

I was able to fleck off a bunch of flakes off the end. After I stuck the end in a bucket of water and it cooled off a bit I started to use a pick hammer to nick it, but I saw it flacking off of the end. After the black on top the metal underneath looked like metal crystals and you could fleck them off with you fingernail. I guess that's not what you were taling about then. What is the proper procedure for checking metal using a file?

Greg

This is really great. I can see that my old beds frames won't be good for nuthin' if I can use them this way. Thanks for the tip. Your shop looks great.

Greg

Greg,

At the soft end, steel is "dead soft" and then, "mild". If I recall my reference books correctly, "dead soft" steel is about 15 points carbon (that is to say 15 one hundredths of one percent) and "mild" steel is about 30 to 45 points. Railroad spikes, if I recall correctly, are about 50 to 60 points carbon. I have heard people say that 60 points is about the minimum you'd want to use for a knife.

I have an old book on blacksmithing, written in 1918, that states that "steel of 75 points of carbon will answer to nearly all purposes except lathe and milling tools" or words to that effect.

As carbon content increases, its hardness increases, and its "ductility" decreases. It's like "having your cake and eating it too". One thing is "hardness". But you buy it by paying in the coin of "ductility".

Thus, carbon steel, if properly quenched, is extremely hard. So hard that you cannot nick or cut it with a new file. I'm not talking about the slag after a cut, blood, hair, hide, or FINGERNAILS, but the steel itself underneath.

If you go through enough examples of rebar, some of it will be soft. But the vast majority of it will be some flavor of "high carbon". Therefore, the prudent hobbyist is careful about how and where he uses it. It can be welded. But in the cooling process the "heat affected zone" ("HAZ") becomes hard and brittle due to air quenching. And the higher the carbon the bigger the problem.

So how do you know? You quench it. If after a proper quench it cuts easily with a file, it is pretty damned soft. At least on THAT piece of the stick, which as Gunner so correctly pointed out, can vary wildly in the same piece.

And to orient you I am simply regurgitating what I've learned from others here. Many of these guys do more welding between the time they start work and their mid-morning coffee break, than I do in a year. I believe I remember correctly that it was Ted Edwards who suggested the quench the end trick. If it was somebody else, then my apologies.

Based on some of the things you've said, I really hope you'll find somebody to help you with the safety issues. Do you have flashback arrestors on your torch? Would you know what to do if you had a flashback?

As to your old bed frames... I wouldn't say they're "good for nuthin'". They're just not the material I'd pick to build a rack on which to store a few tons of steel. But again, you can find out by heating to red and quenching and then trying to nick it with a file. But you'll have to do each and every stick of it.

VT

Vernon,

Thanks for the nice description of testing for high carbon steel in rebar. I realize that it is not a good idea to teach yourself anything that could be hazardous. In the best of all worlds I would like to have the resources and time to get a proper education of welding. Since this is not the case I have no other choice but to teach myself. I have read and use all the available safety equipment I could find information on. I have flashback arrestors on both regulators and on my cutting torch (torch side). I have back check values on my welding torch. This was more than what was recommended in my text book. I understand the danger of blowback and flash back situations, although at this point I have not had that happen. My learning to date says in this event to shut down the acetylene valve, then shut down the regulators and wait for everything to cool down. Following that to inspect the hoses for damage. In the event there is none then I should run O2 through torch to clean out carbon and then go through the proper lighting sequence opening acetylene first - light - then turn on O2 slowly to adjust flame.

I also wear gloves, a welding jacket (treated canvas), and goggles. I know to store petroleum products 40 feet (or more) from O2 should and welding system. The understanding I don't get is the lessons learned and the 'show me' lessons that would really help. Your description above is very helpful and clear. I really won't be welding large projects. Right now the rebar I am using is for art work - welded armatures for cast concrete sculpture. I don't have to do much to it but tack it together. I would like to be able to weld it properly, even though I don't need the strength of a good weld. The one larger project I was planning was to weld is a table I could use for welding. I was planning on using the old bed frames for that. I do not like welding on the ground. Bending over that long is hard on the back.

I did have someone who welds 'frequently' drop by to 'show me how'. They broke every rule in my text book and had the torch popping several times - my guess based on my reading was because they were holding the torch too close to the weld. After that I thought I would probably be better on my own.

I do appreciate what I am learning by reading these notes, it's almost like having someone here helping me, but not everyone is as helpful or thoughtful as you seem to be. Thanks for your help and any more that you can share would certainly be appreciated. I am definitely in a sub-apprentice category.

Thanks for your help and I hope you will answer my future questions too.

Greg

Vernon,

Thanks for the nice description of testing for high carbon steel in rebar. I realize that it is not a good idea to teach yourself anything that could be hazardous. In the best of all worlds I would like to have the resources and time to get a proper education of welding. Since this is not the case I have no other choice but to teach myself. I have read and use all the available safety equipment I could find information on. I have flashback arrestors on both regulators and on my cutting torch (torch side). I have back check values on my welding torch. This was more than what was recommended in my text book. I understand the danger of blowback and flash back situations, although at this point I have not had that happen. My learning to date says in this event to shut down the acetylene valve, then shut down the regulators and wait for everything to cool down. Following that to inspect the hoses for damage. In the event there is none then I should run O2 through torch to clean out carbon and then go through the proper lighting sequence opening acetylene first - light - then turn on O2 slowly to adjust flame.

I also wear gloves, a welding jacket (treated canvas), and goggles. I know to store petroleum products 40 feet (or more) from O2 should and welding system. The understanding I don't get is the lessons learned and the 'show me' lessons that would really help. Your description above is very helpful and clear. I really won't be welding large projects. Right now the rebar I am using is for art work - welded armatures for cast concrete sculpture. I don't have to do much to it but tack it together. I would like to be able to weld it properly, even though I don't need the strength of a good weld. The one larger project I was planning was to weld is a table I could use for welding. I was planning on using the old bed frames for that. I do not like welding on the ground. Bending over that long is hard on the back.

I did have someone who welds 'frequently' drop by to 'show me how'. They broke every rule in my text book and had the torch popping several times - my guess based on my reading was because they were holding the torch too close to the weld. After that I thought I would probably be better on my own.

I do appreciate what I am learning by reading these notes, it's almost like having someone here helping me, but not everyone is as helpful or thoughtful as you seem to be. Thanks for your help and any more that you can share would certainly be appreciated. I am definitely in a sub-apprentice category.

Thanks for your help and I hope you will answer my future questions too.

Greg