What do you want in a welding book?

can you make is so i can set it under my pillow and through sort of an osmotic process be able to absorb charted data whilst sleeping??
thnx
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

I, myself, get more out of seeing it done and hearing it instead of reading it.
When I was an 'on the job trainer' of 3-5 axis machining centers at a aerospace manufacturing company, it seemed that after showing and explaining what and how it should be done is when the light went off in their eyes (i get it light).
As a teacher of welding (Ernie), how many of your students got it by reading and how many needed hands on and verbal instruction?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ernie, you've gotten lots of good suggestions; let me take a different tack on this (no pun intended, of course!):
As a college professor, I've written a couple of textbooks. I have found it helpful to work on the book *as* I am teaching the course. (Not necessarily writing it as you go along--I did that once and about went under!) But you will think of many, many things that need to be in the book as you are working with the students. If you don't write them down immediately (or keep a pocket recorder handy and record a memo for yourself) they will be gone when you sit down to write the book. You may even be able to work out some sort of release form that would let you take pictures of actual student mistakes for use in the book (probably need to consult a lawyer and your school on that one). At the very least see if you can take pictures as a way of reminding yourself of things you need to address, even if you have to reproduce the mistakes yourself for the actual publication.
I say all of the above even if you are not necessarily intending this book to be a "textbook" as such. The textbooks for the welding classes at the community college are more than $100, so they have a pretty limited audience. On the other hand, you could write a book for more general consumption that would still be very useful (perhaps even more practically useful) as a supplementary textbook, as well as for a lot of folks who are not taking classes (or already have taken classes). BTW, I don't know how publishers are in this sort of field, but textbook publishers in the humanities often want to see a *textbook* actually used a couple of times in a class, and preferably by more than just the writer, before they publish it. A more general-purpose text does not have to pass that test, so long as you can sell the publisher on it. As to the latter, publishers normally want to see that you have the credentials and experience to justify the book; I think you could refer them to any member of SEJW and/or RCM for a resounding recommendation!
Finally, I'll chime in regarding including a DVD or CD. More and more publishers see this as a way of distinguishing their books from their competitors. I think the words of caution about producing a full-length video (DVD) are worth noting. On the other hand, short video segments could sure make a difference in the usefulness of the text. I'm thinking for example about the short video demonstrating how to feed a TIG rod through your fingers that you posted to the drop box a year or so ago -- something like that would be *very* difficult to convey in text, but was clear as crystal with even a low-resolution video. Short video segments like this would, I think, be much more feasible and affordable to produce, and probably as useful and maybe even more useful than trying to put together 2 hours of continuous video.
Hope this helps!
Andy

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
As an afterthought ... You might look at present day examples. I do know that AWS is developing instructional materials for their approved instructors. Locally in B.C. Canada we have module books that are used in a vocational setting. ( currently being revised) http://www.publications.gov.bc.ca/pubdetail.aspx?natoy60000058
I know Alberta also has a considerable library of material for their vocational programs. There is no use re-inventing the wheel and at the same time reference materials also tell you what not to do in designing the presentation. Randy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Now that I have read all the posts. I would like to see a DVD / book that work hand in hand as a follow along so you can use the book to follow on and then take it to bed or work as a refresher to read. Some people do books and videos on a subject but they are now saying the same or it sounds different. I for one watch better that reading, but if I see it on video or DVD then read it, it will soak in better. This coming from a beginner. If you want to teach them right, you need to start with a beginner so you can groom them the ground up. I like reading this news group. It does help with info. Right now all I have is O/A and wire feed but I do buy books and videos on all I can.
Don D.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
--
Best Regards,
Keith Marshall
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Oops, hit the wrong button and sent an empty reply. Sorry 'bout that!

While I understand that you need those books for teaching, it's already been done. I'm sure your versions would be better but what I'd really like to see is something more along the lines of a "tricks of the trade" or "bedside reader" type of book that covers all the cool tricks you've taught us over the years such as the pencil and washer trick to learn TIG torch movement, how to smoothly advance filler in your hand and the nice "corner square" you told us about. The kinds of tricks that aren't in books already. I've seen several books along those lines for machinists but not for welders/weldors.
Best Regards, Keith Marshall snipped-for-privacy@progressivelogic.com
"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

One of the things lacking in almost all of the welding books are good step-by-step excercises and projects for trying out and refining the skills and methods chosen. I love the idea of a companion DVD to demonstrate what is being written about.
Also, don't bog the reading down with lots of jargon and industry terminology. The books I have found which mostly seem targeted at formal classrooms are heavy on jargon and light on practical applications.
Make it fun and interesting to build one's skills.
John
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ernie, First I would like to thank you for all the free information and tips I have personally learned from you off of this forum and the videos in the drop-box (i.e.- filler rod deposit & motions) Since I joined the AWS recently and got the Ninth edition vol. two I can't really put it down. I started with Mr. Finch's book as I'm sure a lot of us have. Very limited and in my opinion. And very "Look what I did" grandiose style of writing that seemed almost insulting at points. If you were able to replace that book with your teaching knowledge and history of the science as applied by your hands and teachings I would love to see content blended such as that of what the AWS book provided (I really can't thank Artemia Salina for the post on 06.06.2005 for the findings) If you could possibly integrate in whatever edition or even as a side line - A video series as well as text would be great. The only book I have found worth a poop on TIG is Miller's GTAW book my dealer kindly gave me with a few thousand dollar sale. Again, when I got my 210 Miller included a MIG video tape- a picture is worth a thousand words but a video has been priceless when I was without a mentor starting out. Whatever the book (and hopefully video(s), I'm sure it will accelerate and help many, myself included. I don't know if a book sided one for the private market and one academic is worth your time but there is a difference in content in every book I have from school and from real life. Just a thought sir. Not everyone does this for a living and teaching by example can be done in video and text, Heck, I did it! (Then I hired a hillbilly who could weld like a machine!!)
Wish you all the best and if needed, just ask for photo's with release documents (Gratis of course). I'd be glad to contribute my mistakes for others to avoid, plenty of blunders and good results from my race shop. A lot of folks could use a lesson on a class D Fire extinguishers existence as well. (Or refer to UL).
Rob Fraser
Fraser Competition Engines Chicago, IL.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:
I"m back - 40th year from school - got to see the old guys!
How about metal prep. So many times the welding is just done on this chunk... No prep info - e.g. use SS on AL or don't use xxx sanding disk on YYY... Does it matter on surface 'grain' that is ruffed up on a fine weld (TIG mostly..)
How to test for a bad weld.
Martin
--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ernie
Thanks for good detailed stuff like the "pencil and washer" exercise for training your hand and arm to do TIG welding.
When I have done welding training I have found "context information" useful. Not only see how you weld but also understand why you do it like this and what the welding system does to make that possible.
I've put in a couple of memorable ones in my training to illustrate things which meant something to me. Hope it is helpful in showing at least one "take" on the subject.
Best wishes with book project
Richard Smith
My examples:
Basic stick (Basic SMA) -----------------------
Positional welding with Basic (AWS xx15 & xx16) electrodes. In UK in 1970's / 1980's during North Sea oil rush, Basic, low hydrogen rods were used for positional welding (working at all angles and positions) in fabricating oil rig structures. New type of electrode developed. Only about 1 weldor in 50 qualifying in qualifying tests when initially tried in mid 70's with existing Basic electrodes. Problem. Studied by Phillips Petroleum. Came up with a low-slag welding rod. Weldor could see what they were doing and slag not filling the joint unmanageably. Held up example rod to view. A visibly thin welding rod for its core (wire) diameter. Now capable weldors could pass qualification. Rod now named "Filarc" because sold up by original Phillips Petroleum but name invokes its origin and acceptable to all. Then learned uphill stringer V-butt. Stringer because you are always looking for high properties when you go donw this route of using Basics...
So there you have it - a basket of information - not only how (the technique) but also why - and from where have we come (high-deposition low-hydrogen rods for downhanding but useless for site fabrication where do want Basic's low hydrogen and high strength and toughness but certain to be positionally welding. It's a lot of image of what you are about. When you are working away, you understand a lot of what you are trying to achieve.
Cellulosic stick (Cellulosic SMA) ---------------------------------
Can explain about the pipelaying tradition. The Alaska pipeline and all that. That cellulosics (seem to have?) come out of "shipyard electrodes" of the 1920's(?) where wrapped iron wire in thread of old rope and clay and got reasonable weld properties. Explain how high hydrogen for penetration and therefore good root penetration go together with very little slag, also making for root running through very little slag obscuring the root and quick solidification with not being under and insulating slag blanket. So it all fits together as this root-running electrode. Then go into techniques. But now clearly relating what you are learning to what the welding system inherently makes available to you (it isn't just an accident - it's a design).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

You've gotten a lot of great feedback already, but I'd like to add my $0.02 to the pile. My comments will be a little more general in nature.
I would like to see a book that covered gas, stick, and TIG welding because those are the processes that I would use most. I'm learning on gas now, but want to use stick for the thicker metals and for structural stuff that I will build around the farm. I will use TIG later if I produce any metalwork that needs to have clean/pretty welds such as furniture, etc.
I think that a book that explains the *why*, the principles behind a process/technique would be far superior to a book just showing how to do something. I've never learned (really learned) how to do something from a recipe or a list of steps. In my experience learning to duplicate a set of steps is worthless because when faced with a new situation or problem to solve, the recipe doesn't fit and you don't have the skills to adapt to the situation or problem.
Also, I think that a DVD would be an excellent idea. I have some DVDs from WeldingVideos.com and they are fantastic. To see the welds being made close-up and have the action stop and various things pointed out during the process is very very helpful. And, because it's on DVD, I can go right to a particular section and watch it over and over and over. This has the effect of reinforcing what I've read in other books and shows me what I should/will be seeing when I go out to the barn and fire up my torch. Then I can go back inside and review and compare what I saw to what the video showed, make adjustments and go out and have another successful practice session.
I hope this helps identify some of my needs and some things that may be beneficial to others.
rvb
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
3 days and over 50 replies, which I havn't (yet) read. I guess I've gone away from looking for books that will intantaneously (well, quickly) teach me a craft that - IN REAL LIFE - takes 5 to 10 years to learn. Instant Piano, guitar, whatever ... similar problems.
There might be markets for several different books, a getting started, teach yourself, a supplement to the local comm college night classes, processes
then there are the perspectives of fab vs maintenance and repair
and the interest orientations; auto racing, motorcycles, building faux wrought iron stuff.
I think most of the material is here already. I might want to buy a hypertext version on CD, but not in hard copy.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
This might have been mentioned (I haven't read thru all the reponses), but I would like to see beginner and advanced sections for each topic. The book could then be used for both beginning and advanced welding classes, which would save the student some money spent on textbooks.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Another thing with respect to stick welding: when do you use not only which rod, but which rod thickness? For example, on 1/4" A36 flat bar, do you use 1/4" 6011 or 3/32 6011? (I think I already know the answer to that one, but it's a good example.)
Grant
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Hmmmmmm. What would I want in a welding book?
How about an Ernie Leimkuhler clone to stand by watching and teaching as you go along? :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Can we call him "Ping"? ;-P
(AARP ad: "Are you all brothers?" "No, we're clones!")
The ad is supposed to be here: http://www.visit4info.com/details.cfm?adid "054&type=coolad&startrow=1
--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Well, I hope that's useful to you. I'm just a hobby welder, so I come at it from that perspective...
The book I'd most like to see would have a "split personality" with a focus on practical "How to do task 'x'" and also a focus on the theory.
I think that for each chapter, if you split the two section up (and make it clear that the both the "how to" and the "theory" sections have shortcommings) then the book will be useful to a much wider audience because they can take what they need from it.
For the "how to" section, I'd like to see something like "Modern Welding", where it shows how to move your hands & hold the rod, etc... I like to see what you physically have to do to make a good strong, safe weld.
For the theory section, most of the books are O.K, but I'd like to see a little bit more about: metallurgy, how metal expands/contracts when heating, types of steel (e.g. welding clean stainless vs. dirty mild steel v.s aluminum) some on they physics of how welding actually works, a little about heat flow (for e.g., through solids vs. liquids).
I'd also like to see a better discussion of welding safety. For example, there was a post on The Forge (a blacksmith's list) about the unfortunate death of Jim "Paw-Paw" Wilson, who died of pneumonia after giving himself zinc-fume fever. The post went into a little of the physiology of zinc-fume fever, how it causes pneumonia, etc... (I don't have the post handy right now, but I can forward it to you). Again, I like to hear about "how it happened" *and* "why it happened", "what it means to you".
There have been other good discussions on this newsgroup, that helped me to be a safer welder, such as shipyard safety, fire prevention, how important ventillation is, etc...
Maybe in the appendixes there could be a section about: Business considerations when welding, running a small welding shop History of welding (maybe talk about forge welding, diffusion welding (like in mokume-gane, etc...) More about hardfacing, welding/repairing cast iron Welding around the home/home shop/amateur welding (O/A is often a good choice for home use because it's versitile, how to get used machines, what to look for in surplus equipment, when to rebuild O/A regulators, etc...)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
    --Must admit to not having read all responses, but the one think I would like to see with a good welding "book" would be a CD with video of proper procedures in practice, particularly things like tigging a tee with round tube, that sort of thing..
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Just another fart in
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : the Elevator of Life...
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

I'd like to add welding various metals. The common and the un-common list. e.g. steels, iron, Al, copper sheeting, Bronze foundry elements - method of pre-heat if any, shielding as needed, shielding additionally if needed (box..) Post treating or shielding as needed. Production worthy and small job special tools, gimics - e.g. tapes that shield, sprays that prevent splatter sitck...
Could be used as a guide to fix a pool pump (cast material) or make a kitchen vent hood or such - copper... Both with special treatments pre and post.
Martin
--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.