A Solution....Yes its about AMA

Mike

Six, I 100% agree with you on the LIPOs.......Im gonna stick with NiCd and NiMh for alittle untill < pardon this pun> "the fire dies down on the LIPOs"

Mike

Phil- I thought I made it clear that my PUP does say something about model airplanes, to the effect that I'm specifically covered while flying model airplanes with vastly fewer (as in one) specified conditions than are imposed by AMA's coverage. What it doesn't say anything about is AMA and its rules, and I assure you I've read the policy thoroughly enough to be quite certain of that.

Abel

OK Six! I'm protected and AMA is not required! Your point? My point is, it can be done without AMA! That makes AMA an option! That also makes Muncie nervous. Something you AMA reformers might want to think about.

ONE more time. The issue is N*O*T whether or not YOU are insured, but is the landlord insured? No landlord because it is a park? How many injuries do you think the politricians will tolerate before they outlaw these things in community parks?

OMIGOD!! Kevie might have a option to not join AMA? AAARRRGHHH!! AMA is DOOMED!

That's my point. In my case I am the landlord! In the case of a public park it would be the governing authority and/or the residents of that community. Depending how one cares to look at it.

As for injuries? Little Leaguers get killed every year being struck by a ball. Not to mention the variety of other injuries involved. But the ball fields still go up. Not to mention all the other dangerous activities communities "sponsor" for the their kids. I guarantee that more blood is spilt on a little league field per 1000 participants than on a flying field. And baseball is one of the safer sports we allow.

So gather your statistics and point them out to the powers that be. Then watch their expressions!

Phil- HO is Farmer's Ins Grp, PUP is GEICO. I doubt either has anything unique about their offerings - seems simple enough in any case to ask the agent selling you the policy(ies) to point out where your model airplane flying activity (as well as any other avocational interest you have) is specifically included in the coverage, and what exclusions apply for those specific activities. Insurance companies are reluctant to insure activities they consider high risk, and the risk assessment is logically enough based on payout statistics (for real insurance companies, that is). The high risk activities the insurers are most leery of are listed on a web page of the American Insurance Institute. The top things that make you a pariah in the eyes of the HO insurance underwriters are owning a dog of a breed with a reputation for agressiveness (dog bites are #1 in liability claim $'s), own a trampoline (attractive nuisance lawsuits), or are a writer (exposure to libel claims). Flying model airplanes doesn't even make the list.

Abel

landowner is

coverage. The club

Anybody willfully violating laws and rules that are conditions of insurance, insurance companies are more and more opting out. Your driving down the street at 25 miles an hour which is the posted speed limit, a kid runs out from behind a parked car in front and you hit him you try to stop, your insurance is contractually obligated to back you. Same situation only your driving 50 and there is proof of your excess speed. The insurance company these days will runs so fast it will make your head spin.

Same scenario as above. Remember it an isurance company behind the AMA making the decision, not the AMA.

My kid boke his hand playing hockey this year. Puck hit him at a bad angle from a shot. Insurance company paid, but contacted us because they wanted to reclaim their loss thinking somebody broke it intentionally. It was a total accident, no maliciousness or intent involved, but they were looking. My point is insurance companies are looking for every avenue not to pay out. They just can't afford to anymore.

Look at AMA document 509:

When I read this endless string of AMA bashing under the guise of "sanctioned club insurance requirements" (that appears almost weekly on every RC flyers group on the net), I can guess that the majority of these contributors have less than 10 or 20 years in the hobby and so have no appreciaton for the tremedious strides that AMA has brought to the hobby over the years, by bringing us, the manufacturers, and the FCC together at the same table. The insurance fee is a necessary part of the overall AMA budget needed to maintain this organization. If you read enough of these complaints, you can see that the majority of these folks fall into two rough categories: 1)can't stand to be told what they hafta do. or, 2) just cheap.

Phil AMA609

Phil - The cited part I agree with (in part). Your category 1) is right on the mark. If you need somebody to tell you what to do.....that's your problem.

Abel

| Will either one of you guys tell me the name of your HO insurance | company so we can find out if they also cover the land owner whose | land you fly on?

My home owner's policy is provided by USAA. Not that I really see that as being relevant.

They will cover damages caused by me (and my family), and will cover me if I'm sued for something I did. I don't know if they'll cover somebody else who is sued because of something I did (because as somebody else mentioned, nobody sues one person when they can sue that person, the land owner, the club, the neighbors, the guy who delivered their pizza, etc.), and they certainly won't cover somebody who is sued for something I'm not even involved in.

Ultimately, what it boils down to is that a club (or site?) can get very cheap insurance ($60/year) through the AMA, apparantly as long as the club 1) agrees to follow all AMA rules and 2) only lets AMA members fly there. Obviously the majority of the cost of insurance is subsidized by the AMA fees of all the members. I've heard that most of the claims made aren't even flying related - they're more `slipping and falling' types of claims. (But maybe I'm wrong there.)

In any event, the land owner/club could get insurance elsewhere. It would cost more than $60/year, but probably wouldn't come with all the requirements that AMA insurance does. And the flying members would be free to find their own sources of insurance, not being forced to go AMA. It might even be a better overall deal to do it that way, but the AMA way is certainly simpler, which is probably part of why it's so popular.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- for better or for worse, whomever in the AMA decided to offer insurance as part of it's membership has done more to increase the size of the AMA membership than anybody else.

Do I have to pay more if I fly higher than AMA card holders? After all, I am Using extra AMA air.

Doug, Those are ALL my points, exactly.

Well hell yhaaa......but I see you fly a an electric. I would be carefull around clubs I heard they have micro radar guided SAM's to shoot down parkflyers......they had to switch because they used to use micro ir guided SAM's, but they found out they would lock onto there own planes due to the heat from the glow engine..... SUCKS for them :-)

Mike

Nashville, TN has several public fields and requires you to have

"metro" permit to fly. AS part of that permit, you have to provid proof that you have AMA insurance or a minimum of $200k of home owner insurance for accidents. Works well for the city

-- cadconversion

I've been flying since the late fall of 2001. What a hobby

----------------------------------------------------------------------- cadconversions's Profile:

Sure, but there are two obvious issues: First, it's a LOT easier to simply whip out your current AMA card rather than to bring out a zillion page insurance policy that people would have to wade through in order to determine coverage, because; Second, since flying model airplanes is almost never done at the home of the homeowner who has "home owner's" insurance, it is NOT automatically going to be covered by a homeowner's policy. Just because your homeowner's policy says $200K or more doesn't mean that you will be covered. Would your homeowner's policy cover you while skydiving?.. or at an archery contest where you skewer somebody?.. or if you run over someone with a boat while water skiing?

MJC

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