And I suppose Red also has a list of EVERY claim that has ever been filed along with what the outcome was? Just because they paid once or even twice doesn't mean they pay every time.
They're two ways to play this prove a negative thing.
While I doubt Red has much data, I know that AMA as never refused a valid claim. The operative word in that sentence is VALID.
A claim must exhaust your primary coverage before AMA coverages are applicable, but most of us know that. What many don't understand is that IF you have no other coverage the AMA becomes primary. I know of more than one claim that has been filed, but only of one valid claim. I know a guy who put a giant scale bird through the roof of a manufacturing plant, his HO policy covered the repair of the building and no contents were damaged. I know of another incident where a racer was dropped through the roof of a hanger and the wing of the aircraft parked inside. The AMA paid for both. I know of more than one instance where the AMA paid out on medical claims.
Chuck, the bottom line here is that trying to raise questions about AMA coverage is furthering an urban legend and that can be proven all across the country.
AMA Document 500A, AMA Web site:
General Liability: All incidents need to be reported immediately.
Commercial General Liability Coverage (Effective March 31, 2005) =B7 AMA Liability Protection applies to bodily injury or property damage caused by an AMA member. Any AMA member who causes an accident must report that accident immediately to AMA HQ. =B7 Applies to accidents arising from the operation of model aircraft, rockets, cars and boats, in accordance with the AMA NATIONAL Safety Code(s). =B7 The per occurrence limit of coverage available by this policy is $2,500,000 involving bodily injury and/or property damage with an annual aggregate limit of $5,000,000 per site. These limits are for claims occurring during the policy period. Coverage is provided only for accidents arising from the model activities. =B7 Failure to comply with the AMA Safety Code may endanger insurance coverage. =B7 A separate policy covers participation in FAI events outside of the United States and Canada. This policy has a $1,000,000 limit. =B7 There is no coverage for injury to a member to his own family (Household and Relative(s) living in the member=92s household) for claims or suits. =B7 The policy does NOT cover business pursuits; that is any activity that generates income for a member beyond reimbursement of expenses, except coverage is provided for an individual paid flight instructor. =B7 AMA insurance is =93excess=94 to any other applicable coverage, such as homeowner=92s. =B7 Has a $250.00 deductible (property damage only), which is the responsibility of the AMA member causing the accident.
"Six_O'Clock_High" IF you have no other coverage the AMA becomes primary. I know of more
I agree and I suspect most denied claims are indeed the result of lack of validity in some way or another.
Not a matter of trying to raise questions. Simply wanting to point out that the AMA pundits don't have all the answers either and are as incapable of proving their points in this matter as anyone else. If folks have a problem with that, they can piss off as far as I'm concerned!
No names, no dates, and no case number - Please get the case number from your friend, post it here. Otherwise its just more BS.
Red S.
Red, all you have to do is ask. I'll email my friend, but it may take a week because he is not a regular emailer.
You seem to like confrontational hyperbole. Shall I call you a crusty, obnoxious curmudgeon when I post it, or just post it?
How many large RC fields are there in Gainesville? I know this is going to sound like "BS" to you because I don't remember the specific date, and I just happened to throw a two foot stack of RCMs in the trash last week so I can't look it up, but I distinctly remember seeing a magazine article a few years ago about a large, prominent field in Gainesville. Very nice field, with an East/West runway. I have a good memory, but of course I can't prove it to you. I'd hate to think that somebody wrote an article about your club without asking you first.
Insurance claims are a private matter, so if you want information all you can go on are court cases, which are rare, and anecdotal accounts. This principle works in both directions.
So what does that prove? Did the guy get his answer? Has anybody filed an AMA insurance claim? Have they been paid? Is it worth it? Maybe there just isn't an answer. Just keep coughing up the money and we'll all be happy. Certainly wouldn't want to try anything new.
There are only two clubs in Gainesville, Alachua R/C and Flying Gators MAC. You may have confused Gainesville with Ocala Model Flying Club in Ocala Florida, whose field is some 45 miles to the south. Their field was written up in the last year or two and the paved runway is E/W. There is also the On Top of the World RC Flyers Club, in Ocala. This also was written up as it is unique in being furnished by the developer and advertised extensively in model magazines as a retirement community. Neither of the Gainesville fields have a defined runway, but rather about 400 X 400 closely mowed area. Neither field is what one would consider prominent in this part of Florida. You have proved one thing, that you can concoct stories to fit your agenda with little accuracy involved. BS strike two!
We'll wait patiently. It might speed things up when you post claims that the AMA isn't meeting their insurance obligations if you would state the facts at that time, rather than keep everyone guessing.
Red S.
And it took you over a week to come up with all that? Wow! I'm impressed!
NOT!
And if there is one thing Red is a master at, it's BS!
And if everyone had a nickel for every time this subject has been bantered around, we'd all have our own private flying fields!
Hmmm! Stupidity! Looks like something else Red knows a lot about!
Please crawl back into your cage and take your AMA crap to one of your "private" AMA only forums!
Make up your mind Red! Are you guessing or do you know for a fact?
I have a better idea. I know you are as good at finding things on the internet as my friend Randy is, so why don't you look it up yourself. My guess is that you don't really care and won't look it up because you are satisfied with the status quo, but that's up to you. I'm sure you can find it if you want to. It is of no concern to me one way or the other. I am officially bowing out of this ridiculous discussion and conceding victory to you because there isn't anything to argue about in the first place. You can go ahead and gloat now. You win.
You're certainly correct that everything about this discussion is based on hearsay. In fact, when Randy told me about the case in California, it was just hearsay and I probably should have looked it up myself if I wanted to verify it. I know Randy to be a thorough researcher, so I believed him. You can believe it, or look it up yourself because you do not know him. I don't blame you for not giving the hearsay any credence. My biggest problem is your abrasive attitude that begs to be argued with, but that's legendary and doesn't require any further testimony from me. And while I'm on the subject, my thanks to Lyman Slack for his polite note informing me about the flying fields in Florida. You guys are right, I was probably confusing it with the one nearby in Ocala. I remember thinking that some folks I know from the internet had most likely been there and possibly even flown there. It looks as if you have some nice flying around there, whether in Ocala or at your rustic field in Gainesville.
I stopped at the flying field today and talked to the guys about insurance claims and believe it or not, nobody could recall anybody making a claim in recent years, which is surprising when you consider the number of accidents which have occurred. One guy remembered the pole incident which was almost ten years ago, and one guy remembered the windshield incident. In the past two years we have had a rash of propeller injuries requiring hospital attention. Two guys had fingers reattached, two had arteries and tendons severed (one happened three days ago), and another lost his fingertips. (careless bunch of modelers...) Nobody can verify whether or not AMA was involved in any of these incidents. My guess is that everything was covered by their primary insurance because that's the way it works, but of course that is speculation and I do not expect you to give it any credence. I will politely ask the individuals for details when I see them, as this may have a bearing on our future course of action with the county officials.
I do indeed recall talking to specific people a few years back who were ticked off that AMA would not cover their damages, which was due to the secondary nature of the insurance. These folks have not been around since then. They most likely fly at unofficial fields now. But of course that is of no concern to anybody other than the individuals in question.
I understand that some folks are extremely happy with the current state of insurance coverage and membership requirements, and a lot of guys just don't even think about it. I am happy if you're happy, and I'm certainly not trying to rain on your parade. My personal opinion is that to a non-club member, AMA is of little or no benefit. They do not appear to care about this group, aside from figuring out how to enlist us and get our money. Don't believe me? Read the recent posts from Mr. Cain. Their contract is written in a way that they are not required to perform for their money. A few of us are interested in trying something a different way, and we'll try not to step on your toes when we do it. You can bluster and yell if you want to, which I suspect that you always will, although that is just more speculation on my part and of course carries no weight in an argument, right?
In general this whole discussion is about as futile as talking about model planes on the internet. In ten years this has never changed. At least Lyman has always been polite. Thanks for that.
Does that mean the SUBJECT IS CLOSED :-) Please do not reply; let's drop it!
Chuckie, you are sick! You really need to get professional help.
If you are not interested in the thread, don't read it. Usenet is public, you don't own it, you don't decide what gets posted, and you certainly don't represent anyone other than your anti-social self. Get a life loser!
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