Can't get my park flyer airborne

I have a new electric park flyer. It is a Vortex Extreme from Draganfly innovations. I am having trouble getting airborne because when I hand launch the plane it
heads for the ground every time.
I've tried several trim settings from the elevator sitting flat, to it pointing slightly upward, but the plane still heads for the ground (hard) over the course of about thirty feet. I run the throttle full open, and I've tried throwing straight and slightly upward, but it just wont stay in the air. And I am launching into the wind, although in relatively calm conditions.
I'm a little nervous about giving it any more up elevator, so I thought I'd check with you folks for proper adjustment before I crash too many more times. The plane isn't stalling either, it just almost seems like it's nose heavy. How much of an upward angle should there be on the elevator? I'm new to this, so any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Brian
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bc wrote:

<snip
Before exploring anything else, the first question that needs to be answered is, "how's the balance?"
--
John Miller
email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)
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bc wrote:

You should have as much up elevator as you need. Sorry to be vague, but it can vary.
You should take John Miller's suggestion and check the balance. If the plane came with balancing instructions then follow them. If the plane didn't come with balancing instructions and is a conventional front-wing back-empenage airplane then balance it about 1/4 to 1/3 back from the leading edge of the wing. If it's a canard or flying wing then _really_ dig for those instructions.
Have you hand-launched a plane before? You should be able to toss the thing at its proper glide angle and speed and have it proceed smoothly to a landing without turning the motor on. If you can do that nicely then proceed to launching under power. It can be challenging to get it going fast enough to fly without flinging it sideways.
With an .049 plane or an electric without a gear reducer I try aim for a spot about 20 feet in front of me, I give a good, straight overhead throw and (if necessary) let the thing descend to gain airspeed before going into a gentle climb. Electrics with reducers are usually easier: you just fling them out straight and they'll accelerate to a climb almost immediately.
Remember the big three things you need to keep an airplane in the air: Airspeed, Altitude, and Ideas. Any two of these will give you time to buy the third. This has a corellary on takeoff and landing: you have no altitude, so you'd better know what you're doing!
--
-------------------------------------------
Tim Wescott
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Thanks. I'll check the balance. The plane didn't come with balancing instructions but it's a front-wing with a rear facing engine. The battery is in the nose, so I'll try playing with the placement to improve the balance. I haven't hand launched before, but I'll try your suggestion after I balance it, and and see if I can get it to glide to a smooth landing without power. Thanks for the suggestions.

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bc wrote:

Check teh prop is on te roght way rond and turning in te right direction
Cheack that the wings and stabiliser are more or less level with each other.

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Go here: http://www.rctoys.com/vextreme.php Hit the videos page, it looks like it should fly with a lot of authority. If yours wont, then something needs work. Is the prop on backwards? Is the battery voltage peaking around the right voltage? If there is a bad cell, the motor performance will be poor. If it was bad right from the start, you wont know because you don't have a good one to compare it to. Good luck.
John
<bc> wrote in message

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Thanks. I've seen the videos. That is where I bought the plane. Yes it does fly with authority, ...right into the ground. The prop is defineitely not on backwards. I have two sets of batteries and both are working fully. The prop pushes enough air rearward to knock over a horse. I haven't had a lot of time to experiment with the suggestions from this group because the weather has been lousy, but I'm sure it isn't a thrust issue.

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On 5/24/05 11:30 AM, in article snipped-for-privacy@magma.ca, "bc" <bc> wrote:

Check to see there is not too much down-thrust on the motor.
Don
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Brian, I'm a bit embarrassed to ask, but is there any chance your elevator could be reversed? Just the other day at the local field, a dad and his two kids were trying to launch their brand new Easy Star, but it kept nosediving into the ground every time. Turns out they had the elevator reversed because they were accustomed to arcade games where 'up' is up on the stick and 'down' is down, and they assumed planes worked the same way. Changing the elev.reversing switch on the transmitter fixed the problem. Bill(oc)
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Don't be embarassed. It's always difficult to judge the experinece level of the person you are trying to help. I am use to flying PC simulators with a joystick and I have always used stick-down for elevator up. When I first assembled the plane, it was reversed, but I fixed that before I attempted my first crash...flight.
I flew glow-plug U-control and radio-controlled planes about a million years ago in my teens, so I do have some experience, albeit dated. Not to mention my intimate knowledge as a PC pilot of the A10 Warthog and F18 Hornet ;)
When I got my plane, I started out with the elevator completely flat, but that didn't work. I then trimmed it from the tx in small increments, with a test flight at each setting, but that didn't help. The plane goes about 30 to 40 ft right to the ground....not a sharp nose dive, but just no signs of wanting to climb. I then kinked the control arm so when the trim tab was centered, the elevator was slightly upward, but that didn't help either. I've tried different throwing techniques, but I seem to get the same results, in fact the more I try to throw it up, the harder it comes down. This plane looks like it can take a lot of abuse, but I think it's reaching its limits, not to mention my frsutration...this was supposed to be relaxing.
When I get a chance I'll check the balance and a few other things. Thanks, Brian

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To determine whether it could be a motor thrust angle or cg problem you could do a hand tossed glide (engine off) perhaps with the prop removed to eliminate the drag. That ought to tell you where to look further.Not being familiar with the plane I'd suggest a .....robust toss. Pat
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<bc> wrote in

Ookayy, another possibility, then. Does the elevator pushrod attach to the bottom of the elevator or the top? If it attaches to the bottom, then the servo has to push on the pushrod to make the elevator go up, and if the pushrod flexes instead, then the elevator won't move. I see this more often on rudders, where the plane will turn to one side but not the other. Of course, the control surface (rudder or elevator) will work just fine on the ground, but once it's in the air, with wind blowing over the surface . . .
Actually, it's a fairly common problem.
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