Forget it, Marc. Quit trying to defend yourself and your site because there's no way you can win. In many people's minds, you're WRONG, and no amount of logic is going to change their minds. You're WRONG for trying to defend yourself against these baseless personal attacks, because you're the "servant." They're the customers, therefore they should be allowed to insult, demean, berate, and otherwise abuse you and your business. You're just supposed to stand there with a smile on your face and say, "Yes sir, thank you sir. May I have another?"
I really feel that the people you see here account for 90% of the people that hate the new site. Neat trick because half of them are basing their judgements on the half-truths spread by the half who got half a look at half a site that was only half-functional...
Guys, keep it in your pants until the site's actually UP.
Well, here's where my loyalty ends: Pop-ups. When that first pop-up hits my screen, RCU get immediately deleted from my Favorites folder and I take ALL my online R/C time to RCGroups.com. Marc may think that he's got the only R/C game going, but he doesn't. Once he's run it into the ground just like RCOnline and RCAirport (although we know that can't happen because there's no relation between any of these sites and RCU; right?), I predict that RCGroups will be the next R/C site to be voted most popular by the people who count... us. I'll be watching for pop-ups, then I'm gone, and I've already taken my buy-sell business to RCGroups.com. Oh, did I mention RCGroups.com?
Marc has repeatedly said that there are no pop-ups. This may again be a case of semantics, as people mistakenly call ANY sort of advertising "pop-ups," even if it technically doesn't pop anywhere.
I've heard the term "full page ad" bandied about. That's technically not a pop-up, but it's going to be a major annoyance if it's true. HOWEVER, let's let him get the new site working first, THEN pass judgement.
Here's what'll happen if there's a mass-exodus to RCGroups.com: Someone will get the bright idea the RCGroups.com needs to be more commercial because it's reaching such a large group of people. It's inevitable. Money doesn't grow on trees, advertisers are willing to pay to reach lots of people, and site owners aren't fools.
Actually, I will prefer paying for the privilege of posting to the classifieds, rather than depending on my memory to forward the appropriate funds. Especially if they take a credit card on the spot and I am done with the process.
You guys are nuts if you think Marc owes you any loyalty. His loyalty is to those vendors who pay him to allow their adds on his web sites. The vendors are the customers here for his advertising business. The subject matter of R/C is the bait which exposes you guys to the adds (hooks).
Now Marc may not be getting anything directly other than perhpas free server space. But money changes hands every time one of you 'hits' the site and adds appear. And judging by his own words in a response, six new servers and four full time "employees"! I suspect it is indeed a money making operation for him. Every time another sucker snaps at the bait!
Wonder how many similar operations on other subjects he runs?
"Fly Higher" wrote in message news:MGiUa.22569$zd4.18831@lakeread02...
Well how about that, absolutely no idea what you're talking about at all. And why do advertisers pay Marc, because people will view the site, level of traffic determines cost per ad. Varying ways of determining charges but all rely basically on one thing. The amount of users per page. No users then no ad revenue, how many times have you seen a site fall down due to poor marketing strategies, place your advertisers above your users and eventually the site falls in on itself. Advertisers will always be lining up to pay for position on a high traffic site, Marc knows that. Lose traffic and lose revenue. Take care of the users and the advertisers will take care of themselves. There is no doubt that RCU's new site will dominate for a while but if there is enough un resolved dissention then the users will go to another site which they perceive (right or wrong) better fulfils their needs or desires. Believe me the advertising revenue will follow, marketing is a beancounting kind of life. You are right but about the bait, the bait analogy works fine but Marc has changed his bait and if the new bait doesn't attract as many fish then they will move downstream to where the bait is plenty and the advertisng big fish will follow. By the way Marc came upon his popularity from the very same situation, he tries to deny the similarity but the fact was the incidentals make no difference, the other site did not listen to its users displeasure citing the same justifications, that they knew what we wanted and was best for us, they are in all essence gone now. Rc groups has a strong E following and could easily take the rest of the traffic with a little effort. Sad thing is that all the people I have spoken to would have paid a yearly subscription to keep things the same and he could still have made money from the banner ads as they are relatively unobtrusive. Marc says we have no faith in him when it was quite the opposite, he had no faith in his many followers. Finally speed has nothing to do with it, fast crap or slow crap it is all crap, Good Luck
BTW, After doing a little more research into RCGroups I can say that I do like their funding options a lot more than others I've seen recently. I was a bit hasty in my remark just as you all were hasty in it's blind denial of subscription existance.
So, to recap:
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A LITTLE bit or research and you would see that I am a subscriber to ALL
I am still squeamish about giving out credit card info too, Jon, even though I can see the handwriting on the wall.
It is hard to adjust to using something for free and then having to pay for it. I'm still ticked at Art Bell for charging for streaming audio after using it for free for a few years, but if I had a sufficiently large audience that would be willing to pay, I can say that I would do the same as he.
Unfortunately, if the past is any indicator of future performance (I've heard something like that before...) when a website begins to desperately search around for alternate methods of presentation and revenue generation, it usually isn't long before they are gone. I hope that is not the case with RCU, but I am not optimistic.
Ed, Your acceptance of the credit card requirement is why these things happen. If a significant number of users "just say no", the forum would fall apart. But Marc won't let it fail because it's his cash cow, so what would happen is that the credit card requirement would be dropped. He figures that "If I charge them, they will pay". It's up to users to prove him wrong. So the answer is for you, and others, NOT to simply accept the change. If it's worth it to you individually, then fine. But for the rest of us, we may not be willing to permanently register our credit card number with ANYBODY. As for me, I'm already waiting for the first pop-up and I'll say goodbuy in favor of other R/C alternatives.
Marc, and his compatriots, ask for donations from those that sell items via their website. Any hobbyshop that accepts consignments does precisely the same thing, but it is not a donation. It is a flat charge, like it or lump it. Quite often this charge is 10% of the selling price. A year or so ago, our local hobbyshop was charging 25% of the selling price. RCU was much, much lower and offered a much larger prospect base.
The present voluntary donation plan is a good plan, but I never get around to making the donation. Why? Because I can't keep track of what is going on these days. It is all I can do to send people what they paid for in a timely fashion. A yearly fee of $20 is a most reasonable fee and is easily accomplished via debit or credit card.
I have not read the rules for the new website, so it is quite possible that I am misunderstanding something very fundamental. I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong. TIA
Ok..don't know why I come here to answer this stuff...guess I'm a glutton for punishment. First let's consider what the new RCU is and what it IS NOT. First off everything is FREE with the sole exception of those who SELL stuff. Nobody needs to pay for posting or reading. All that is FREE, FREE, FREE, FREE. Hope that point is made clearly. If not let me reiterate "EVERYTHING IS FREE TO ALL USERS ON RCU EXCEPT SELLERS". BTW...auctions are 50% of ebays prices. Anybody think that is unfair? (to the poster above who mentioned our poll on whether we should have auctions - read up on it please as you will note users confused whether we should add auctions vs. using auctions to REPLACE classifieds. We are only adding auctions to our classifieds. We have both as users requested. Don't like auctions then use our classifieds. How simple is that for catering to every user I ask?)
Second. Rather than make any judgement on a site nobody has seen working 100% functional from a usage or cosmetic standpoint please reserve your opinions until you have seen and used the final out of the box site for at least a week. If after a week you don't think it smokes the old one you should email me with your reason why. I don't expect a lot of email though to be honest. Aside from pockets of grumbles the majority of emails or PM"s I've received are extremely positive and that feedback occured from users who saw a site that wasn't fully ready and is still in beta!
For those who want a short tour of the new RCU click the link below or paste it into your browser. It will highlight a few of the cool things about what is coming to RCU. Also worth noting is that our forums look and function 98% like what we have now. There are extra features programmed in that have been requested.
Tour:
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Also I've read many who talk about RCU being only about money or how much we will make or don't make. Why does that even matter? Does it matter how much tower hobbies or horizon make? Are they only in it for the money? Do they give their stuff away? What about Futaba, OS, JR, Hitec and so on. Do we fault them for being businesses or examine their balance sheet? Does everyone feel the need to determine how much is allowable for me to earn on RCU for the 6-7 days I work every week and the 12-16 hour days? What is reasonable? Should I take a poll on RCU and let the users decide what is appropriate for my salary for starting and running RCU? Others feel RCU should be free down to every last drop. Well I could apply for charitable tax status with the IRS but I'm going to need some help in justifying that one I'm sure. I hope you see my point. Somebody stated that we have 4 employees so we must be raking it in. Even if we were why would that matter? Hobbico/Tower has 1800 employees but nobody faults them for providing product or services. Nobody should.
I live in the United States of America where capitalism is our method of doing business. Every company that you purchase products or services from in the USA works off the capitalistic economic model. Everything you own practically is a result of this system. Your car, tv, house, food, computers and so on. Who ever stated that it was Un-American for RCU to run itself as a business? Every business must cater to its customers or it goes away. That is capitalism. We will either cater correctly to our users and listen to them or we go away.
This new site is a result of listening to users requests for features or functionality. I listened, we built it and we will put it out there. If incorporating what our users want into the site WAS the wrong move then I will sit in an office, turn off my phone and email and figure out for everyone what they want I guess. Again...just making a point.
And about the full page ad it is simple. If the market doesn't bear it then it goes away. If it does bear it then it can stay. In TV, radio, newspapers and magazines full page ads and commercials are all tolerated by us everyday. Popular sites on the web use this full page ad with success. If history is any guide it is unlikely we will lose many over a full page ad as it did not affect any of these other web based properties. If it affects us we will take the appropriate measures just as we always have done since day one.
Hope you enjoyed the guided tour and have a small window into all the cool stuff that is coming to RCU. RCU remains a site that has a future guided by the majority of its customer base.
Have an open mind and just a little faith please. Thank you.
Pretty spiffy tour But gotta be honest here the eyes are tired and got a little foggy on me so I didn't read all the fine print. So here's all I got to say Your points are well made and IMHO well taken. That said I gotta tell ya I went to rc airport two or three times before I went rc universe and all the ads and popups turned me away. Got a good popup stopper now so that's won't be a problem for me, and also an advert blocker that works fairly well so no biggy. I'm waiting to see what gets shaken out of your tree. I hope it's as cool as you want it to be. I'm no computer whizz or nobody special so if I can find the stuff I like the way I do on rcuniverse I'll be there If I can't I'll be sowhere else. Hmmmm!! I think that's the way it's supposed to be right. Looks to me like your putting a lot into it so all I can do is wish you the best of luck and wait and seeeeee.. as pop used to say time will tell sonny, time will tell
Marc, Boy doesn't this sound like RConline! Marc, your a great guy and have done a wonderful thing for the hobby. Give yourself a break and go fly an airplane. Yes, an R/C airplane. Sounds like you have been working to much to enjoy the hobby that brings us all together.
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