This Looks Like The Right Place


In other words a void, till space fills in some of it.
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I think of it more in terms of existence and non existence. With the universe, there is existence, without the universe...
Ed Cregger
--
Into quilting? Know a quilter that needs a novel, inexpensive gift?

Please visit http://www.quigleyquotables.com/ for the latest in modern, easy
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To me void and nothing is synonymous.
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The universe is a very illogical place.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Hey, I LIKE that
at POINT!!
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<pedant> I think it's 1c, actually. C is symbol for coulomb(s), the SI unit of electrical charge. </pedant>
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Yow! Am I cleansed
at yet?!
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It isn't expanding _into_ anything. It's just expanding.

No, not into nothingness. It's the nothingness _itself_ that is expanding.

I don't understand the question.

Perhaps not. Whether or not our brains can cope is immaterial. The universe is the way it is. IMO, quantum physics is far more bizarre than anything cosmology has to offer, but it too has been proven correct time and time again over the past 70 years. As Niels Bohr said, "Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it."

But in this case there are goldfish who can conceptualize algebra. They have names like Newton, Einstein, Hawking, Morrison, Feynman, Hubbel, and so on.

Could be, but I don't see how that effects anything.

That's your prerogative. Fortunately for us, the Wright brothers chose not to give up on the problem and stick to building bicycles just as others choose not to give up on the problems of cosmology. I'm not bright enough to figure out the answers on my own, but I can at least try to understand the answers that others have found.
And on the 100th anniversary of the "year of Einstein", I think we should all be glad he didn't just give up on the problem as well.
OK, I'm done trying to explain cosmology in this NG (something for which I'm sure you're all grateful). If anybody really wants to pursue the subject further, I can recommend some reading -- starting with "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawking. Any decent library should have it, or you can get your own copy:
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Yow! It's a hole
at all the way to downtown
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Grant Edwards wrote:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Grant, if you want to impress us, derive the equations. Otherwise get off your exalted pedestal.
                    Thank You -Paul
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Almost everyone likes some kind of music. Let us say you are at a concert. Makes no difference if it is the NY Met, the Boston Symphony or a Travis Trit concert in Branson. Lets say someone behind you is tapping their foot loudly thruout the concert. But they have no musical sense and are tapping out of time. Also humming along out of key or singing part time but they only know a few of the words, again out of key. Any of you would consider such a person a boorish lout. You would be angry and probably bitch to the person and if she persisted bitch to the management. You would rightly be offended as music has a beauty that this person is spoiling. Their behavior is plainly offensive.
To someone who appreciates the beauty of math to hear someone make ignorant, boorish comments like "a mobius strip has two sides as I can prove by cutting it in half" is just as offensive. People like this should be shown the door and told to shut up until they can behave like adults and not be such boors. They are fully as offensive as those who decide to behave poorly in the concert. If they wish to shit in their own pants they should do it in private.
Physics is not finished in terms of trying to understand the universe. Perhaps it never will be finished. But as time goes on we understand more and more. The best idea we have today happens to be string theory in most educated peoples minds. String theory has accomplished a great deal. It tells us why we have exactly three physically large dimensions. All of both quantum mechanics and relativity can now be derived directly from string theory. It also has not answered all questions. For instance it does not provide Planks constant or the rest mass of a proton. As the mathematics is better understood it may provide these things. Or it may not and we may have to move on to another idea. It is a pure mathematical theory. Any replacement also will be pure mathematics.
The MM experiments of course have also been done with one leg in the vertical dimension relative to earth with exactly the same result. Any orientation argument is pure nonsense
Light travels at c in a black hole just as elsewhere. It does not escape because the g field is so high that the light inside the escape limit travels in a curve with a radius less then that of the escape limit and is thus bent too much to ever escape.

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"flyrcalot" SNIP

Or more simply "Space isn't just curved it's down right bent out of any shape we can comprehend at the moment" The shortest distance between two points IS NOT A STRAIGHT LINE! The shortest distance between two points is when you bring them together. I can concieve that idea but I doubt that I'll ever have the math to make it happen.
--
Keith Schiffner
Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of the
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From 'flyrcalot':

strip

offensive.
Heh. That feeling IS familiar, with the 'void-space paradigm' (VSP) and the popular 'raisin bread' analogy to illustrate spatial expansion. Under the VSP, the bread has only raisins and no dough, just "nothingness", pure void, between the raisins. So how can 'nothingness' be undergoing expansion as evidenced by the cosmological redshift (not just the Doppler recession component, but the _cosmological_ component)?
The 'Void-Spacers' are confronted with overwhelming evidence that space is most profoundly 'Something'. But to maintain their premise, they resort to ad hockery such as 'dark matter', dark energy, 'quintessence', curled-up 'extra dimensions' and 'strings' (strings of What, pray tell?). And of course there's the "messenger particles"- a whole menagerie of various '-otons', '-itons' and '-onons' necessary to carry radiation across the 'Void'. This is a latter-day version of the imps and angels of medeival religionists. And it's the modern equivalent to geocentrism.

in their own

That's being a little harsh on the Void-Spacers, don't you think?

True, because the vertical arm of the apparatus undergos Lorentzian foreshortening, exactly cancelling any phase shift- again yielding null result.
But gravity, by its abundance of effects, clearly demonstrates an accelerating, omnidirectional 'reverse starburst' FLOW into a gravitating mass. And GR's 'curvature' brilliantly (but abstractly) describes the _acceleration rate_ of this flow. Bill(oc)
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Instead of getting angry flyrcalot should have asked, "what if it is space, and you cannot cut it". To which I would reply that it is still not infinate because you would keep passing the same point. To be infinate you would never pass the same point twice.
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flyrcalot wrote:

Well to somebody so well educated you seemed to have missed the boat. I guess, that would is because you only need to understand the most simple of issues to get what you missed. In your example above, the individual was at a concert, of a specific type of music. He was being disruptive. This group IS NOT your math sandbox. As such, those that are here are free to speak about a variety of subjects (being a non moderated group). You being in this group and getting all "mathy" on everyone makes you the one out of place. You see, the average person, will make out just fine in life with only a small understanding of math. Fact is, a whole bunch of the most successful people you can think of never had anything more than calc.
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Not sure what you mean about "physically large dimensions", but I had always thought there were four dimensions. Unless time is not "physically large".
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I'm not trying to impress, but I was hoping to educate -- apparently in vain. I already said I'm not bright enough to find the answers myself, and will freely admit I can't derive all of "the equations".
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! My CODE of ETHICS
at is vacationing at famed
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You will always do a poor job of educating if you are angry. Which is why my wife helps the kids with homework.
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Because the Martian told them so?
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wrote:

Really , 150 ? Do you happen to know how many are on the moon? I could have sworn I ran into a map of the earth with a good guesstimation of what it would look like if it weren't so active and for the life of me I can't come up with the key words to find it again. Or that moon number,can't tell me they haven't got a good idea.
But but I'm thinking small maybe wind filled one's of minus 150 yrs. Bet the gov't has the pictures I want to look at already, but they an't coughing them up with out lots of bucks under the table, booze, and hookers...
Its the quest , maybe I'll stop if they let me spend weeks going through them. I found one as a kid that was about the size of a milk bottle tab. I'm thinking around softball size and solid metal now.
Happen to know say the odds of finding a gold nugget to a meteorite?
What about modifying weed whacker motors, I have some metal working machines. I can find them for free if I look.
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Something like that. I'm sure google can find you the exact number.

Dunno. Tousands? Tens of thousands?

Afraid not, but I imagine it depends rather heavily on where you look.

Not sure what you're asking...
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! ANN JILLIAN'S HAIR
at makes LONI ANDERSON'S
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wrote:

Nylon weed cutting motor parts. If you don't know, never mind. I have time to check it out , gave away about 6 in the past cause I never thought toy planes could be fun.
I spent days on trying to find the number on the moon for my own calculations and couldn't find the answer. Can't find photo maps of the whole Moon to count them myself , either ! Something fishy there if you'd ask me. Probably cause I don't search with the right words or have to pay to get in to see if they have what I'm looking for.
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wrote:

Yes, the utility two-stroke engine would be a good way to go. The model won't be overly large, but it will be capable of lifting a usable payload and its operating cost and replacement cost, should you lose the plane, will be acceptable.
You will need an FCC Amateur Radio Operator's License of at least Technician Class to operate the aerial video equipment that you will use. Most retailers will not sell amateur radio gear without proof of license. It is easy to pass the exam after one weekend of studying the manual.
There are quite a few almost-ready-to-fly models available that only require minor assembly, compared to building one from scratch or a kit of parts.
You will be limited to visual range flying only, if you have any common sense at all, or unless you live out in the boonies. The chance of an incident is fairly high. As we say in R/C, "If you fly'em, you'll crash'em". No exceptions.
Find and join a model airplane club. You will need flight instruction, regardless of how good a pilot you may be using a computer simulator. The learning curve for such a model is not very steep. Set aside a summer of leisure time for learning the ins and outs of R/C model flying.
I could go on for hours, but you would not understand what I am talking about, so why waste all of our time?
At the very least, you will have acquired a very enjoyable hobby. Having a mission to accomplish, such as discovering meteor impact sites, can make this hobby all the more enjoyable. Good luck and come back with any questions or comments that you may have. I am interested in learning of your progress.
Ed Cregger
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