It isn't expanding _into_ anything. It's just expanding.
No, not into nothingness. It's the nothingness _itself_ that
I don't understand the question.
Perhaps not. Whether or not our brains can cope is immaterial.
The universe is the way it is. IMO, quantum physics is far
more bizarre than anything cosmology has to offer, but it too
has been proven correct time and time again over the past 70
years. As Niels Bohr said, "Anyone who is not shocked by
quantum theory has not understood it."
But in this case there are goldfish who can conceptualize
algebra. They have names like Newton, Einstein, Hawking, Morrison,
Feynman, Hubbel, and so on.
Could be, but I don't see how that effects anything.
That's your prerogative. Fortunately for us, the Wright
brothers chose not to give up on the problem and stick to
building bicycles just as others choose not to give up on the
problems of cosmology. I'm not bright enough to figure out the
answers on my own, but I can at least try to understand the
answers that others have found.
And on the 100th anniversary of the "year of Einstein", I think
we should all be glad he didn't just give up on the problem as
OK, I'm done trying to explain cosmology in this NG (something
for which I'm sure you're all grateful). If anybody really
wants to pursue the subject further, I can recommend some
reading -- starting with "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen
Hawking. Any decent library should have it, or you can get your
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Yow! It's a hole
at all the way to downtown
Almost everyone likes some kind of music. Let us say you are at a
concert. Makes no difference if it is the NY Met, the Boston Symphony
or a Travis Trit concert in Branson. Lets say someone behind you is
tapping their foot loudly thruout the concert. But they have no
musical sense and are tapping out of time. Also humming along out of
key or singing part time but they only know a few of the words, again
out of key. Any of you would consider such a person a boorish lout.
You would be angry and probably bitch to the person and if she
persisted bitch to the management. You would rightly be offended as
music has a beauty that this person is spoiling. Their behavior is
To someone who appreciates the beauty of math to hear someone make
ignorant, boorish comments like "a mobius strip has two sides as I can
prove by cutting it in half" is just as offensive. People like this
should be shown the door and told to shut up until they can behave
like adults and not be such boors. They are fully as offensive as
those who decide to behave poorly in the concert. If they wish to
shit in their own pants they should do it in private.
Physics is not finished in terms of trying to understand the universe.
Perhaps it never will be finished. But as time goes on we understand
more and more. The best idea we have today happens to be string
theory in most educated peoples minds. String theory has accomplished
a great deal. It tells us why we have exactly three physically large
dimensions. All of both quantum mechanics and relativity can now be
derived directly from string theory. It also has not answered all
questions. For instance it does not provide Planks constant or the
rest mass of a proton. As the mathematics is better understood it may
provide these things. Or it may not and we may have to move on to
another idea. It is a pure mathematical theory. Any replacement also
will be pure mathematics.
The MM experiments of course have also been done with one leg in the
vertical dimension relative to earth with exactly the same result.
Any orientation argument is pure nonsense
Light travels at c in a black hole just as elsewhere. It does not
escape because the g field is so high that the light inside the escape
limit travels in a curve with a radius less then that of the escape
limit and is thus bent too much to ever escape.
Or more simply "Space isn't just curved it's down
right bent out of any shape we can comprehend at
The shortest distance between two points IS NOT A
STRAIGHT LINE! The shortest distance between two
points is when you bring them together. I can
concieve that idea but I doubt that I'll ever have
the math to make it happen.
Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of the
Heh. That feeling IS familiar, with the 'void-space paradigm' (VSP) and
the popular 'raisin bread' analogy to illustrate spatial expansion.
Under the VSP, the bread has only raisins and no dough, just
"nothingness", pure void, between the raisins. So how can 'nothingness'
be undergoing expansion as evidenced by the cosmological redshift (not
just the Doppler recession component, but the _cosmological_ component)?
The 'Void-Spacers' are confronted with overwhelming evidence that space
is most profoundly 'Something'. But to maintain their premise, they
resort to ad hockery such as 'dark matter', dark energy, 'quintessence',
curled-up 'extra dimensions' and 'strings' (strings of What, pray
tell?). And of course there's the "messenger particles"- a whole
menagerie of various '-otons', '-itons' and '-onons' necessary to carry
radiation across the 'Void'. This is a latter-day version of the imps
and angels of medeival religionists. And it's the modern equivalent to
in their own
That's being a little harsh on the Void-Spacers, don't you think?
True, because the vertical arm of the apparatus undergos Lorentzian
foreshortening, exactly cancelling any phase shift- again yielding null
But gravity, by its abundance of effects, clearly demonstrates an
accelerating, omnidirectional 'reverse starburst' FLOW into a
gravitating mass. And GR's 'curvature' brilliantly (but abstractly)
describes the _acceleration rate_ of this flow.
Instead of getting angry flyrcalot should have asked, "what if it is
space, and you cannot cut it". To which I would reply that it is still
not infinate because you would keep passing the same point. To be
infinate you would never pass the same point twice.
Well to somebody so well educated you seemed to have missed the boat. I
guess, that would is because you only need to understand the most simple
of issues to get what you missed. In your example above, the individual
was at a concert, of a specific type of music. He was being disruptive.
This group IS NOT your math sandbox. As such, those that are here are
free to speak about a variety of subjects (being a non moderated group).
You being in this group and getting all "mathy" on everyone makes you
the one out of place. You see, the average person, will make out just
fine in life with only a small understanding of math. Fact is, a whole
bunch of the most successful people you can think of never had anything
more than calc.
I'm not trying to impress, but I was hoping to educate --
apparently in vain. I already said I'm not bright enough
to find the answers myself, and will freely admit I can't
derive all of "the equations".
Grant Edwards grante Yow! My CODE of ETHICS
at is vacationing at famed
Really , 150 ? Do you happen to know how many are on the moon?
I could have sworn I ran into a map of the earth with a good
guesstimation of what it would look like if it weren't so active and
for the life of me I can't come up with the key words to find it
again. Or that moon number,can't tell me they haven't got a good idea.
But but I'm thinking small maybe wind filled one's of minus 150 yrs.
Bet the gov't has the pictures I want to look at already, but they
an't coughing them up with out lots of bucks under the table, booze,
Its the quest , maybe I'll stop if they let me spend weeks going
through them. I found one as a kid that was about the size of a milk
bottle tab. I'm thinking around softball size and solid metal now.
Happen to know say the odds of finding a gold nugget to a meteorite?
What about modifying weed whacker motors, I have some metal working
machines. I can find them for free if I look.
Nylon weed cutting motor parts. If you don't know, never mind. I
have time to check it out , gave away about 6 in the past cause I
never thought toy planes could be fun.
I spent days on trying to find the number on the moon for my own
calculations and couldn't find the answer. Can't find photo maps of
the whole Moon to count them myself , either ! Something fishy there
if you'd ask me. Probably cause I don't search with the right words or
have to pay to get in to see if they have what I'm looking for.
Yes, the utility two-stroke engine would be a good way to go. The model
won't be overly large, but it will be capable of lifting a usable payload
and its operating cost and replacement cost, should you lose the plane, will
You will need an FCC Amateur Radio Operator's License of at least Technician
Class to operate the aerial video equipment that you will use. Most
retailers will not sell amateur radio gear without proof of license. It is
easy to pass the exam after one weekend of studying the manual.
There are quite a few almost-ready-to-fly models available that only require
minor assembly, compared to building one from scratch or a kit of parts.
You will be limited to visual range flying only, if you have any common
sense at all, or unless you live out in the boonies. The chance of an
incident is fairly high. As we say in R/C, "If you fly'em, you'll crash'em".
Find and join a model airplane club. You will need flight instruction,
regardless of how good a pilot you may be using a computer simulator. The
learning curve for such a model is not very steep. Set aside a summer of
leisure time for learning the ins and outs of R/C model flying.
I could go on for hours, but you would not understand what I am talking
about, so why waste all of our time?
At the very least, you will have acquired a very enjoyable hobby. Having a
mission to accomplish, such as discovering meteor impact sites, can make
this hobby all the more enjoyable. Good luck and come back with any
questions or comments that you may have. I am interested in learning of your
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